what is considered concealed?

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kw5kw
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what is considered concealed?

#1

Post by kw5kw » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:27 pm

Would wearing a 9mm in a belt holster with a tee-shirt draped over it to "hide" it... Is that considred concealed?

It's getting warm and my 'small' .32 is out of service for repairs for the next 6 weeks or so, and my Springfield XD-9 is large for me to carry during the summer time and I don't feel like a suit/sport coat in 100+ Texas heat.

Thanks
Russ


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#2

Post by XD_Dan » Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:42 pm

Printing can be a problem with just a T-shirt.

Why not try a T-shirt tucked in and then a "hawaiian" style shirt worn over it, unbuttoned. I carry this way often. It's really no hooter than wearing a T-shirt only. The only thing you need to pay close attention to is the wind. It can sometimes blow your holster-side shirt tail back....exposing your carry rig.

Try to find an over-shirt with some type of pattern (plaid) or multiple colors. They tend to print less than solid colors.


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#3

Post by Cosmo 9 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:30 pm

Welcome to the forum!!!
I have an XD-9 and I never felt like it was concealed enough. Even with an over shirt I felt the budge was to large. I carry a Kahr PM9 IWH with just a t-shirt and it never prints at all. I did have to buy some longer shirts though so I could reach up on store shelves and close the lift gate on the SUV.
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#4

Post by longtooth » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:33 pm

kw, +1 on the T-shirt tucked in & something over it. I wear a lot of the Hawaiian shirts, polo shirts, & regular square tail shirts. If your wife or mother, depending on age & if you are married, sews then a contoured shirt cut square at the high point of the sides is a good cover. I button mine but open is fine too. The key is loose enough that you cannot see gun outline. It does not have to be 3 sizes too big & appear sloppy w/ tail hanging down below your back pocket. Then leave it alone. Sheeple dont pay attention to anything. Don't worry about it. That 9 will hide. There are too many of us that carry 1911s. I carry a Commander size but know several who carry full size. I used to until last week a fellow fell more in love w/ it than I was. :lol: The worst thing I think that can happen & have never seen any talk about it, is have one of our fast summer thunder showers pop up & get soaking wet. Boy that will print one bad. :shock: Past that no sweat. Enjoy the summer. It is a long time to Thanksgiving.
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#5

Post by txinvestigator » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:33 pm


Texas Government Code, Section H
§411.171. Definitions.



(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of
which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.



If I can tell by ordinary observation that you have on a gun, it is not concealed. A t-shirt over a belt holstered gun might be a problem.
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#6

Post by Venus Pax » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:08 pm

Have you considered IWB holster with an untucked t-shirt?
It's a good compromise.
I carry my gun like that. Even when I have some printing from my t-shirt, only a portion of the gun prints, so I never have the outline of a gun printing. (Does that make sense?)
Essentially, I could be carrying a blackberry, cell phone, etc. on me. No one could tell except for maybe another CHL holder that happens to be looking very closely, and that person wouldn't know for sure.
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.

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#7

Post by kw5kw » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:27 pm

txinvestigator wrote:
Texas Government Code, Section H
§411.171. Definitions.



(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of
which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a
reasonable person.



If I can tell by ordinary observation that you have on a gun, it is not concealed. A t-shirt over a belt holstered gun might be a problem.
This is exactly why I asked.

Is a 'reasonable person' one who isn't looking for a weapon. Could an over-zealous patrol officer be considered "reasonable"? Could another CHL holder be considered 'reasonable'? As, they could be biased towards looking for a weapon.

During the summer I generally carry my .32 in my back pants pocket.... nobody could ever tell that it's there. (The KelTec P-32 is small and very concealable.) But, it is in for repairs at the factory... slide locked open and I could not get it closed, so I sent it in to be repaired. They said 4~6 weeks... you and I both know that probably means more like 8~9 weeks, so that's my summertime carry period.

I've had my CHL for 4 years now, just went back for my renew. The CHL instructor, who was wearing a OBH with a vest over it, indicated that would be sufficent. But, I don't wish to 'risk' a lengthly explamation to FWPD in my local Walgreens over such. Said instructor said that even an "oops---the wind accidently blew my shirt away and exposed my weapon" is not considered an offense.

In the fall, winter, spring I can carry my 9mm in my inside my carry vest pocket which has a holster built into it, or under my sport coat or windbreaker... easy.

I'd rather leave my weapon in car rather than have a hassel with over-zealous FWPD personell.

Russ

Thanks for the welcome, I just found this forum.

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#8

Post by gigag04 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:27 pm

I wear a 3" 1911 OWB. I can pull off just a t shirt if it's looser and I put my cell phone next to the holster.

Get creative and use a mirror. IF you do just wear t-shirt remember to keep your elbow tucked on the grip of your gun.

-nick
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison


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#9

Post by longtooth » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:01 pm

gigag hit it on the head. I have said many times that my cell is easier to see that something is under my shirt than my gun. Also remember, today there are so many people that wear so much on their belt that seeing "something" on belt does not at all mean gun. Cells, plam pilots, blackberries, tool pouches, side cutters, knives in holsters, I have seen one with 2 cell phones, & the list can go on & on. Stand in front of the mirror & if you cant see a gun under it then no one else can. Police officers are not casual observers. They are trained observers. If they bust you it will be because you won't leave it alone. Don't fix it & no will know it is there. We promice.
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#10

Post by Venus Pax » Thu Jun 01, 2006 7:20 pm

:iagree:
"If a man breaks in your house, he ain't there for iced tea." Mom & Dad.

The NRA & TSRA are a bargain; they're much cheaper than the cold, dead hands experience.


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#11

Post by TxFire » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:10 pm

I conceal my Glock 23 under a T-shirt in an IWB holster most of the time. With the proper T-shirt (looser cut) I can conceal it in my OWB holster also. I do not believe the casual observer will know that anything is there unless I happen to bend at the waist and the butt "prints". I do not believe that the normal "sheeple" will even think that is a gun though. I don't stress over it much anymore and I'm still pretty new at this.


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#12

Post by JLaw » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:31 pm

Venus Pax wrote:Have you considered IWB holster with an untucked t-shirt?
I agree. When carrying my Smith 908 I usually carry IWB at 3:00 to 3:30 position, with an untucked t-shirt and it hides away unbelievably well.

Since I've started carrying my Smith Model 19 more, I've found that the few Polo style shirts I have (which are one size bigger than needed) conceal the 19 and it's 2.5" barrel quite nicley in an OWB belt slider. I'm becoming rather fond of OWB holsters and Polo style shirts.

I think maybe the key is if your t-shirt fits you nice and snug when you're not carrying, it's not suitable for concealed carry...invest in some t-shirts that are one size bigger.

Tip: when carring IWB, I keep a Buck 110 folder in it's factory sheath at the 4:00 - 4:30 position, then slip the bottom of the t-shirt behind the factory knife sheath...doing this creates a wrinkle "texture" in the t-shirt that makes any bulges or edges of the 908 completely disappear. It also allows you to access your folder without disclosing to the world that you're carrying.

JLaw


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#13

Post by KBCraig » Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:56 pm

The big variable no one has mentioned is girth. How big a boy are ya? </Roy D. Mercer> :grin:

My waist has expanded over the years, but I'm broad shouldered. At 5'10" and 230 pounds, I carry a full size pistol (Ruger P97) in either an OWB slide, or Fobus paddle, with just a XXL shirt covering.

I prefer, and usually wear, a T shirt tucked in, then a Hawaiian or camp shirt over that. The T sure beats gun-on-skin. But, if circumstances require, I can get by with just an untucked XXL T shirt. If I don't have an outer cover garment other than the T shirt, I'm pretty careful not to bend or stretch in a way that stretches my shirt.

The bottom line: no one is going to notice. Most people are oblivious. They're more likely to notice if you're self-conscious about it, because you'll be adjusting and checking yourself constantly.

Just throw something loose on top, relax, and carry!

Kevin


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#14

Post by kw5kw » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:40 am

KBCraig wrote:The big variable no one has mentioned is girth. How big a boy are ya? </Roy D. Mercer> :grin:
I'm 5'11"; 200. The last belt I purchased was a 40 the last pants were 38's and had a bit of room left without being tight. While I have more of a 'paunch' than I had when I was 20--some 30+ years ago--I don't consider my self anywhere close to being 'obese'.

I just don't like IWB's and prefer OWB or shoulder... aka vest.

Just too darn hot in summer for sport coat, which is not a requirement in my job of I.T. management but I do wear in cooler fall/winter/early spring periods in combination with other types of garments such as regular jackets, windbreakers and vests.

I am not a proponant of weapons not on my physical person, such as in a briefcase, organizer etc. I firmly believe that you should never leave your weapon unattended for any reason when you're not at home.

At home I have no children, just the wife and with our one 'furkid', so security at home is not an issue with us.


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Printing

#15

Post by Commander » Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:10 pm

'a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person. '

I often wear my 6946 IWB with a polo or T-shirt untucked. "Ordinary Observation" by a "reasonable person" would only see a lump of some type on my waist. Who is to know if that lump is my cellphone, my Pocket PC, or my 9mm?
"Happiness is a warm gun" - The Beatles - 1969


Commander

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