Scarborough Fair

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TexasVet
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Scarborough Fair

#1

Post by TexasVet » Sun May 03, 2009 7:40 am

Quick question. Is this event (near Waxahacie) posted 30.06 or 51% this year from anyone who has gone ?

The website said "State law prescribes a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $5,000 for carrying weapons where alcoholic beverages are sold, served, or consumed. Section 61.11, Alcoholic Beverage Code, Article 46.035 (g), Texas Penal Code Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission, 1-888-THE-TABC, PO Box 13127, Austin, Texas 78711-3127
Pursuant to section 30.06, Penal Code (Trespass by Holder of a License to Carry a Concealed Handgun) a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, government code (Concealed Handgun Law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun. "

I read previous years where one person said that it was properly posted but everyone else just mention references to the king and queen prohibiting guns.
Thanks

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Seburiel
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Re: Scarborough Fair

#2

Post by Seburiel » Sun May 03, 2009 12:02 pm

I've seen it sporadically posted with 30.06 ensignage, but it's not always in a 'conspicuous place' or even noticeable. never seen a 51% notice (and I doubt that they could back that one up, legally). So...


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Re: Scarborough Fair

#3

Post by Nintao » Sun May 03, 2009 6:37 pm

I go every Sunday and I shall take better notice for any and let you know. I do not carry there as I am dressed in metal armor. However, I should have noticed them as being a CHL holder I need to be aware of these things even when I am not carrying. I highly doubt they are 51%!!! That would be a lot of drinking on a lot of peoples part!

Also there are many people there carrying weapons... swords, axes, etc plus they have several forges that sell these types of weapons there. I always considered that wordage from their website a warning to behave yourself.

Again I will look for them next weekend.
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Re: Scarborough Fair

#4

Post by Wildscar » Sun May 03, 2009 6:50 pm

its posted on the wall board to the right of the ticket stand. Technically you would see it walking up to the ticket window but only if you are actively looking for it. When I went with Nintao two weeks ago 99.5 the wolf was there and set up right in front of the wall board. That made it even harder to see. Only casue I was looking for it and have seen it before did I know where you look.

I didn't bust out with a Swiss army ruler or nothing but the size might not meet the requirement but the two tone does since its black on white.

So do with this information what you will.
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Re: Scarborough Fair

#5

Post by barres » Mon May 04, 2009 12:38 pm

TexasVet wrote:I read previous years where one person said that it was properly posted but everyone else just mention references to the king and queen prohibiting guns.
Thanks
I believe that portion of your question comes from discussions about the Plantersville version of Scarborough Faire, the Texas Renaissance Festival. The signs at Ren Faire say something of the effect of "Their Royal Majesties declare that no weapons are permitted," and are no where near 30.06 compliant. I haven't been to Scarborough Faire since before I was old enough to qualify for a CHL. Sorry.
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Re: Scarborough Fair

#6

Post by tfrazier » Mon May 04, 2009 2:26 pm

Wildscar wrote:...So do with this information what you will.
..."shall be the whole of the law!" "rlol"
Okay, not everyone will get that, but since there are a few pagans amongst us I figured I'd make them feel at home. :tiphat:


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Re: Scarborough Fair

#7

Post by mymojo » Mon May 04, 2009 3:01 pm

tfrazier wrote:
Wildscar wrote:...So do with this information what you will.
..."shall be the whole of the law!" "rlol"
Okay, not everyone will get that, but since there are a few pagans amongst us I figured I'd make them feel at home. :tiphat:

Aleister Crowley.

That tidbit comes, co-incidentally, from my encouters with the polyamorous pagans that seem to inhabit Refests. :evil2:
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NotThere
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Re: Scarborough Fair

#8

Post by NotThere » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:19 pm

I don't know what statute they are claiming the no CHL under. I have worked there, and visited regularly going back almost 20 years.
As far as I can tell they have no grounds to post a 30.06 sign.

1. Thier TABC License #: RM863242 specifies the "blue" or "unlicensed possession" signage is permitted, meaning they are not a 51% establishment. 51% permits have a "Red" signage authorization in on their permit - check here - http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/PublicInquiry/Status.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. They do not meet the requirements of an amusement park, or other restricted business under PC §46.035
https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetf ... CHL-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think it's one of those businesses that just doesn't want you to carry and is illegally claiming a 30.06 exemption.
BUT, I don't want to be the one that gets hauled off and has to retroactively prove this point.
As you can tell from reading throughout this forum, there are many places that post the 30.06 sign without knowledge of the law, and leave people to figure it out on their own. Would love it if someone with the means would take up this charge.


License #: RM863242
Trade Name: SCARBOROUGH RENAISSANCE FESTIVAL & SCREAMS HALLOWEEN THEME PARK
Owner: SOUTHWEST FESTIVALS INC.
Location Address:
2511 FM 66
WAXAHACHIE , TX 75167
Mailing Address:
PO BOX 538
WAXAHACHIE , TX 75168-0538
County: Ellis Orig. Issue Date: 2/5/2014
Status: Current Exp. Date: 2/4/2016
Wine Percent:
Location Phone No.: 972-938-3247
Subordinates: FB,PE
Related To:
Gun Sign: BLUE

(1) “Amusement park” means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park
where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in
a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75
acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries,
is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any
public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking
garage, or other parking area.
That weight in my pocket is a reminder to be vigilant.

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Re: Scarborough Fair

#9

Post by Vol Texan » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:34 pm

Welcome to the Forum, NotThere.
NotThere wrote:I don't know what statute they are claiming the no CHL under. I have worked there, and visited regularly going back almost 20 years.
As far as I can tell they have no grounds to post a 30.06 sign.
A business doesn't need grounds to post a 30.06 sign. They can post it if they wish, and it is enforceable as long as the property is not 'owned or leased by a government entity'
NotThere wrote: 1. Thier TABC License #: RM863242 specifies the "blue" or "unlicensed possession" signage is permitted, meaning they are not a 51% establishment. 51% permits have a "Red" signage authorization in on their permit - check here - http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/PublicInquiry/Status.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2. They do not meet the requirements of an amusement park, or other restricted business under PC §46.035
https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetf ... CHL-16.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Even an amusement park would have to post the 30.06 sign if they wanted to keep out CHL holders.
NotThere wrote:I think it's one of those businesses that just doesn't want you to carry and is illegally claiming a 30.06 exemption.
What is 'illegally claiming' and what is the '30.06 exemption'?
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NotThere
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Re: Scarborough Fair

#10

Post by NotThere » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:02 pm

Thanks for the comments. I usually just read posts, but this has come up in several of my circles and I was running through my knowledge and needed the feedback. Appreciate the corrections, and apologize for the bad use of grammar on my part. Is it protocol to take down a post that's shot full of holes, or leave it up as a lesson?

I was not aware that private property owners can arbitrarily post a sign and it be enforceable. I thought the law allows for CHL holders to carry everywhere, unless a business falls under one of the provisions made for a church, school, hospital, 51%, etc., that exempts them from people carrying on their premises. Thus the terms "claims a 30.06 exemption". I have seen the arguments on the content of the sign and I'm not one to push an issue there.... Guess I didn't ask the right questions at my last renewal class.
That weight in my pocket is a reminder to be vigilant.

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Re: Scarborough Fair

#11

Post by Vol Texan » Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:47 pm

NotThere wrote:Thanks for the comments. I usually just read posts, but this has come up in several of my circles and I was running through my knowledge and needed the feedback. Appreciate the corrections, and apologize for the bad use of grammar on my part. Is it protocol to take down a post that's shot full of holes, or leave it up as a lesson?

I was not aware that private property owners can arbitrarily post a sign and it be enforceable. I thought the law allows for CHL holders to carry everywhere, unless a business falls under one of the provisions made for a church, school, hospital, 51%, etc., that exempts them from people carrying on their premises. Thus the terms "claims a 30.06 exemption". I have seen the arguments on the content of the sign and I'm not one to push an issue there.... Guess I didn't ask the right questions at my last renewal class.
Thanks for taking my comments as positively as you did. I hoped that would be the case.

That's why we're all here though - to learn as much as we can from others! Lord knows that I learn here every time I visit.)
Your number one option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
When those fail, aim for center mass.

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Re: Scarborough Fair

#12

Post by rtschl » Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:32 pm

NotThere wrote: ...
I was not aware that private property owners can arbitrarily post a sign and it be enforceable. I thought the law allows for CHL holders to carry everywhere, unless a business falls under one of the provisions made for a church, school, hospital, 51%, etc., that exempts them from people carrying on their premises. ...
NotThere, remember that churches, schools and hospitals DO HAVE to post 30.06 as they are no longer off limits by statute.
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Re: Scarborough Fair

#13

Post by srothstein » Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:48 pm

TexasVet wrote:The website said "Pursuant to section 30.06, Penal Code (Trespass by Holder of a License to Carry a Concealed Handgun) a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, government code (Concealed Handgun Law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun. "
I believe that you have just received proper and legal notice and could be prosecuted if you carried there based on your CHL. The law does NOT require that the notice be a sign at the gate. It has requirements for the sign and requirements for other written notice. This meets those requirements (well, I would need to reread the wording but that looks right). It is important to remember that the sign needs to be bilingual, but other written notice doesn't.

Yes, I realize proving the case might be hard, but it is the law.
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Re: Scarborough Fair

#14

Post by C-dub » Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:52 am

Okay, there's some misconceptions flying through this thread.

Churches, hospitals, and amusement parks must meet the 30.06 requirements to prohibit CHLs from carrying on their premises. Schools are not required to do so at this time. And as minor and somewhat humorous as it may be, I agree with Steve that having seen the 30.06 verbiage on their website does constitute effective notice, but extremely difficult to prove. He's far more knowledgeable than I on the subject.

Regarding the Scarborough Fair thing, I'm curious about who owns the land. Is it privately owned or is it government owned land that is leased for a period of time? Please forgive my ignorance. I have never been to this event.
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Re: Scarborough Fair

#15

Post by Keith B » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:02 am

C-dub wrote:Okay, there's some misconceptions flying through this thread.

Churches, hospitals, and amusement parks must meet the 30.06 requirements to prohibit CHLs from carrying on their premises. Schools are not required to do so at this time. And as minor and somewhat humorous as it may be, I agree with Steve that having seen the 30.06 verbiage on their website does constitute effective notice, but extremely difficult to prove. He's far more knowledgeable than I on the subject.

Regarding the Scarborough Fair thing, I'm curious about who owns the land. Is it privately owned or is it government owned land that is leased for a period of time? Please forgive my ignorance. I have never been to this event.
The one in Waxahachie is posted with a very large 30.06 sign at the gate. Think the others are as well. Ans Waxahachie is privately owned land for sure.
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