CHL holder dies of gunshot wounds

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ghentry
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CHL holder dies of gunshot wounds

#1

Post by ghentry » Thu May 19, 2005 8:28 am


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Charles L. Cotton
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#2

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu May 19, 2005 9:17 am

I have very mixed emotions about posting this, as I don’t want it to be taken as speaking ill of the dead. Bully did what he thought was right and paid with his life.

The primary reason I’m posting is to point out the dangers to our younger and newer CHL’s on this forum. Unlike Mark Wilson in Tyler who took action to stop the killing that was on-going, Bully risked his life for a friend/employee who was not in danger. It would have been far better for Bully, his family, and a multitude of friends, if he had simply called the police and let them handle the situation. I my opinion, it would have been totally different had the woman gone into the house and started screaming or gunfire had erupted, but she was relatively safe with Bully outside.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m not saying we should not go to the aid of someone, when legally justified. But we should lend assistance in the safest possible manner which, in this case, would have been to drive away and call the police. Perhaps Bully thought the presence of an armed man might defuse the situation and the intruder would simply leave. If that was his thought process, he was mistaken and it was a deadly mistake.

May the Lord comfort his family and friends.

Chas.
Last edited by Charles L. Cotton on Thu May 19, 2005 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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gigag04
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#3

Post by gigag04 » Thu May 19, 2005 9:48 am

Good post. Something good to think through.

I echo your prayer

-nick
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#4

Post by Baytown » Thu May 19, 2005 10:16 am

Charles, my thoughts exactly. I do not want it to seem like I am speaking badly about the man, because I'm not. That being said though, he should have called the police.

If I was the first officer on scene, I would not have gone in by myself, and I would have body armor and a rifle.

I would tend to think that the members on this board are a little more "into" concealed carry. I do run into people though that tell me they went and got a CHL after... (insert drama here). I have to scratch my head and think, :shock: , that makes me think they would have pulled out a gun or used it if they would have had it.

The best way to win a gun fight is to avoid it.

Glenn
Winners never quit, and quitters never win; but, if you never win, and never quit, you're a moron.


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ghentry
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#5

Post by ghentry » Thu May 19, 2005 10:33 am

Chas, I agree 100%. My reasoning for posting this article was so that hopefully we could learn from the decisions others have made.

It's funny, when you first get your CHL you feel invincible. Then once you start to get more training and you mature in your thoughts, you realize that you are anything but that.

I wouldn't ever want to think I would run away from a person in need, but I hope also that I will always use good judgement and not let my ego make my decisions for me.

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Charles L. Cotton
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#6

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu May 19, 2005 11:11 am

ghentry wrote:My reasoning for posting this article was so that hopefully we could learn from the decisions others have made.
I agree. That's about the only way for anything good to come from a tragedy like this.

Please don't think I was being critical of your post; I'm very glad you did. As I teach in my classes, and have been taught at Thunder Ranch for years, anyone who carries a gun should think about such situations and pray they do not happen to you.

Regards,
Chas.

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This is actually not that hard to figure out...

#7

Post by stevie_d_64 » Thu May 19, 2005 12:57 pm

First, I am in no way disrespecting the comments and opinions expressed so far on this thread...

We all would have seen this story tonight anyway, so it was bound to get around...No big deal...

Second...

I believe the actions of this CHL holder were wrong, and inappropriate...

Something else drove this person to act beyond what they should have done...Which should have been mainly to stay out of this situation, and encourage the employee to stay away from the other party...

But we will never know the whole story...

I have a theory, but that is for bull'ing at the range...

Later,
Steve
Last edited by stevie_d_64 on Thu May 19, 2005 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#8

Post by Paladin » Thu May 19, 2005 2:19 pm

It sounds like Bully was definitely a great person. Somebody who always did the right thing, and someone who will be greatly missed.

But I have to agree that it was a tactical error to go in the house, with no one in the house being in danger. If everybodies safe, its time to call the police and let them do their job.

May he rest in peace
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#9

Post by Braden » Thu May 19, 2005 4:04 pm

Generally my opinion on these "what would you do" type of threads is this....if you weren't there, or if you haven't been in the same situation yourself, then you don't know what you would have done so don't try to second guess those who were there.

That said, I do agree with what Charles and a few others have said. We may never know all of the details of the situation or what it was that prompted Bully to arm himself and go into the house, but from what we can read in the paper it certainly seems that the BEST thing to do would have been to call the police and let them handle it. Of course, we all know we can't believe everything we read in the paper...and it wouldn't surprise me at all if there are key elements to this story that aren't being reported.
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#10

Post by Chris » Thu May 19, 2005 8:56 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Bully risked his life for a friend/employee who was not in danger. It would have been far better for Bully, his family, and a multitude of friends, if he had simply called the police and let them handle the situation. I my opinion, it would have been totally different had the woman gone into the house and started screaming or gunfire had erupted, but she was relatively safe with Bully outside.
i can't even begin to tell you how much this happens. i get apartment managers who tell me all the time that they take a friend or relative "who has a CHL" with them when they have to speak with a rather aggressive tenant. or someone going through a divorce, boyfriend and girlfriend breakups, etc., they'll take along a CHL holder. i would imagine that most CHL holders are willing to oblige because they want to help a friend, but feel prepared for any danger because they have a gun.

having a gun on you doesn't mean you don't have to use your head anymore. it means you just took on a whole lot of responsibility and the first part of that responsibility is to avoid a deadly force situation whenever possible. i'm honestly quite surprised this situation hasn't happened more frequently.

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#11

Post by stevie_d_64 » Fri May 20, 2005 11:02 am

Chris wrote:i can't even begin to tell you how much this happens. i get apartment managers who tell me all the time that they take a friend or relative "who has a CHL" with them when they have to speak with a rather aggressive tenant. or someone going through a divorce, boyfriend and girlfriend breakups, etc., they'll take along a CHL holder. i would imagine that most CHL holders are willing to oblige because they want to help a friend, but feel prepared for any danger because they have a gun.

having a gun on you doesn't mean you don't have to use your head anymore. it means you just took on a whole lot of responsibility and the first part of that responsibility is to avoid a deadly force situation whenever possible. i'm honestly quite surprised this situation hasn't happened more frequently.
This is a dangerous precident to let one get themselves into...

I am not condeming the assistance given by a CHL'er to an unlicenced person to help them out, but not just because that person knows you have a "gun"...That obviously falls outside the scope of the law that allows us to do so...We are not Law Enforcement, nor should we be expected to act in that capacity, its illegal to do so anyway...

Thats why few people outside my family know I have a licence to carry concealed...I don't advertise it, nor do I discuss it, unless they need info on how to get one...That I do, enjoy discussing...

Later,
Steve
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Paladin
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#12

Post by Paladin » Mon May 23, 2005 1:58 pm

Another article with more info:

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mp ... an/3188695

Apparently this wasn't the first time Bully shot a BG.
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sensei
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#13

Post by sensei » Mon May 23, 2005 4:24 pm

Well, Let me add to the story.

My wife graduated from school with this guy. She and her friends have kept in touch with each other over the years.

We go to all the reunions, etc.

When I told her about this and she realized who it was she got on the phone with all her friends.

Here is the story:

This gal was cheating on her husband (who worked out of town all the time) with the guy she came home and found in her house.

The rest of his friends think she was probably cheating with Bully also.

So, Maybe it was a shootout between two guys who were cheating with another mans wife.

Those who know him say he had some John Wayne in him.


Bully was a very generous guy with his time and his money. You have to give him that. He did some great things.

I agree that if things were as they were presented, he should have called the police and allowed them to clean the house.

May never know the whole true story.

sensei

P. S. Not trying to spread rumors. Lets keep this on this board only, please. I can't prove any of this. It is speculation and heresay.


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#14

Post by jpa1701 » Mon Sep 19, 2005 1:27 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I have very mixed emotions about posting this, as I don’t want it to be taken as speaking ill of the dead. Bully did what he thought was right and paid with his life.

The primary reason I’m posting is to point out the dangers to our younger and newer CHL’s on this forum. Unlike Mark Wilson in Tyler who took action to stop the killing that was on-going, Bully risked his life for a friend/employee who was not in danger. It would have been far better for Bully, his family, and a multitude of friends, if he had simply called the police and let them handle the situation. I my opinion, it would have been totally different had the woman gone into the house and started screaming or gunfire had erupted, but she was relatively safe with Bully outside.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m not saying we should not go to the aid of someone, when legally justified. But we should lend assistance in the safest possible manner which, in this case, would have been to drive away and call the police. Perhaps Bully thought the presence of an armed man might defuse the situation and the intruder would simply leave. If that was his thought process, he was mistaken and it was a deadly mistake.

May the Lord comfort his family and friends.

Chas.
I agree with you Charles. I think you hit the nail on the head. Sad situation.
Be Safe!

JP

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