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Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:59 pm
by 1shooter
I can I open carry at my work, inside and out...My boss has no problem with it...Plano Texas...I do not have a CHL... Im a new to the forum...

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:03 pm
by Keith B
1shooter wrote:I can I open carry at my work, inside and out...My boss has no problem with it...Plano Texas...I do not have a CHL... Im a new to the forum...
Welcome to the forum.

Are you in control of the property? Unless you are in control of the property, then you can't legally open carry on the premises or in the building.

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:31 pm
by oohrah
Then educate me here - if I'm in my house, or on my farm, I can open carry and I can give one of my guns to a visitor and they can open carry. As long as we stay on private property and have the owner's permission, no licenses are required.

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:34 pm
by cb1000rider
oohrah wrote:Then educate me here - if I'm in my house, or on my farm, I can open carry and I can give one of my guns to a visitor and they can open carry. As long as we stay on private property and have the owner's permission, no licenses are required.
Texas is strange.
Your visitors can't legally open carry on your property (at all) unless:
1) They're in control - leasing it or renting it.
2) You guys are hunting.
3) You're target shooting.

(those are the exclusions that I remember)


Basically, it's not possible to give another person permission to open carry a handgun on your property without one of the above cases.

In fact, I don't understand how you legally take a gun from your car into a buddies suburban home unless you have a CHL.

Business are different. It may be if you're in "control" of the business - IE represent the owner or somehow manage, that may be allowed... :tiphat:

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:39 pm
by Keith B
oohrah wrote:Then educate me here - if I'm in my house, or on my farm, I can open carry and I can give one of my guns to a visitor and they can open carry. As long as we stay on private property and have the owner's permission, no licenses are required.
Actually, no, can't give someone permission to open carry on your property. Here is the part of the law that pertains to carrying:
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or...
So, if you are not on your own premises or premises under your control, then you cannot carry a firearm without a license. If you do have a license, then the firearm must stay concealed if you are not on your premises or premises under your control.

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:42 pm
by oohrah
Wow, that's incredible! I bet this law is violated all the time in west Texas, just speculating. Thanks for the education.

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:51 pm
by Keith B
oohrah wrote:Wow, that's incredible! I bet this law is violated all the time in west Texas, just speculating. Thanks for the education.
It comes down to the fact of who is going to report you? If you go to a buddies house and he doesn't care if you open carry where only he or his family can see you, then it is still illegal but they won't turn you in for it, so no one will know.

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:54 pm
by Dadtodabone
welcome to the board 1shooter

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:56 pm
by The Annoyed Man
Keith B wrote:
oohrah wrote:Then educate me here - if I'm in my house, or on my farm, I can open carry and I can give one of my guns to a visitor and they can open carry. As long as we stay on private property and have the owner's permission, no licenses are required.
Actually, no, can't give someone permission to open carry on your property. Here is the part of the law that pertains to carrying:
Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or...
So, if you are not on your own premises or premises under your control, then you cannot carry a firearm without a license. If you do have a license, then the firearm must stay concealed if you are not on your premises or premises under your control.
So when my son open-carries with his boss's approval in the gunstore owned by his boss—which deals with LOTS of LEOs, primarily Keller and Southlake—he's violating the law? Sure doesn't seem to bother the cops much.

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:57 pm
by oohrah
OK, I just looked up PC 46 also. There are no exceptions for target practice or hunting. How can I go to a range and rent a gun for practice without a license? How can go to someone elses property and hunt? There has to be other exceptions 46.02, but I can't find them. Thanks for the help.

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:58 pm
by jocat54
Just curious.....why couldn't I as a property owner say or give another control of said property.

Which brings up another question in my mind.........if wife and I are both on the property who is in control of the premises? (nevermind I really do know ther answer to that) :mrgreen:

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:08 pm
by Keith B
jocat54 wrote:Just curious.....why couldn't I as a property owner say or give another control of said property.

Which brings up another question in my mind.........if wife and I are both on the property who is in control of the premises? (nevermind I really do know ther answer to that) :mrgreen:
It is a gray area. The question comes down to how many people can be in control of the property at one time. There is no case law or AG opinion that I am aware of. So, you could argue that both people carrying were in control of the premises, but if that other person owned it and was there with you, then as a DA wanting to prosecute for an Unlawful Carry charge I would argue that the owner was actually the one in control and would override any control you really had.

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:58 pm
by Jason K
Keith B wrote:
jocat54 wrote:Just curious.....why couldn't I as a property owner say or give another control of said property.

Which brings up another question in my mind.........if wife and I are both on the property who is in control of the premises? (nevermind I really do know ther answer to that) :mrgreen:
It is a gray area. The question comes down to how many people can be in control of the property at one time. There is no case law or AG opinion that I am aware of. So, you could argue that both people carrying were in control of the premises, but if that other person owned it and was there with you, then as a DA wanting to prosecute for an Unlawful Carry charge I would argue that the owner was actually the one in control and would override any control you really had.
Even if the person carrying is a representative of the owner?.....

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:15 pm
by Keith B
Jason K wrote:
Keith B wrote:
jocat54 wrote:Just curious.....why couldn't I as a property owner say or give another control of said property.

Which brings up another question in my mind.........if wife and I are both on the property who is in control of the premises? (nevermind I really do know ther answer to that) :mrgreen:
It is a gray area. The question comes down to how many people can be in control of the property at one time. There is no case law or AG opinion that I am aware of. So, you could argue that both people carrying were in control of the premises, but if that other person owned it and was there with you, then as a DA wanting to prosecute for an Unlawful Carry charge I would argue that the owner was actually the one in control and would override any control you really had.
Even if the person carrying is a representative of the owner?.....
If you are a representative of the owner and are the one that is truly in control of the premises, then you meet the letter of the law. The issue is if the true owner and you are both there, then I would say they are really in control and you are not.

So, personally, I would not want to be the test case on this one.

Re: Open Carry at Business

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:25 pm
by TexasCajun
Interesting. Most of the sales associates at The Arms Room in League City open carry both in the store and on the range. Are you guys saying that they're all breaking the law by doing so?