Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

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Charles L. Cotton
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Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#1

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:27 pm

Understandably, there has been a lot of discussion about the potential response, or harassment some claim, of law enforcement to people carrying openly. It will probably be much like it was in the early days of concealed-carry when the concept was new. It was very common for drivers to be disarmed when the LEO was advised that the driver has a CHL. Over a short time period, CHL quickly became a non-issue and disarming of CHLs as a general practice faded away.

I suspect we'll see pretty much the same pattern, unless the bomb-throwing open-carry guys decide to bate LEOs so they can get video of the interaction. Most CHLs and LEOs are good people and they are going to get along well. Another factor that comes into play that wasn't an issue for concealed-carry is the inevitable "man with a gun" calls that LEOs are going to be getting. It's imperative that people carrying openly respond respectfully to LEOs answering those calls! Understand the position that MWAG calls put a LEO in and don't treat him or her like they are looking for an excuse to harass you simply because you are carrying openly. Be ready also to be swatted and that puts you and the LEO in a very dangerous scenario. Again, respond respectfully and the LEO will get to the bottom of the problem.

Will there be some LEOs who are jerks and just want to harass people carrying openly? Yes, of course there will, just like there will be open-carriers who will be jerks to the officer. Luckily, both bad apples will likely be few in number. If one walks out of their home spoiling for a fight, they will likely find one. But if you adopt the Golden Rule approach, you will go a long way toward making open-carry a non-issue.

Chas.

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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#2

Post by harrycallahan » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:30 pm

Thanks, this is good advice.

What do you mean by the term "swatted"?
I like to keep this handy... for close encounters.

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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#3

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:33 pm

harrycallahan wrote:Thanks, this is good advice.

What do you mean by the term "swatted"?
It's the dangerous practice of calling law enforcement and making false claims that something illegal and dangerous is going on at a certain home. The claim is always something that demands a swift response and often the response if by a SWAT team.

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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#4

Post by RoyGBiv » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:41 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Swatting is the act of tricking an emergency service (via such means as hoaxing a 9-1-1 dispatcher) into dispatching an emergency response based on the false report of an ongoing critical incident.
For everyones safety, and for the good of 2A PR, I think it's a good idea to be as deferential as possible if/when approached by LE while OC-ing. Certainly in the short term (first year). Hopefully OC will quickly become routine enough for the general public to ignore, or even better, talk to you about.
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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#5

Post by eureka40 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:50 pm

Thanks Charles, sage advise from a wise man.
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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#6

Post by A-R » Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:04 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Understandably, there has been a lot of discussion about the potential response, or harassment some claim, of law enforcement to people carrying openly. It will probably be much like it was in the early days of concealed-carry when the concept was new. It was very common for drivers to be disarmed when the LEO was advised that the driver has a CHL. Over a short time period, CHL quickly became a non-issue and disarming of CHLs as a general practice faded away.

I suspect we'll see pretty much the same pattern, unless the bomb-throwing open-carry guys decide to bate LEOs so they can get video of the interaction. Most CHLs and LEOs are good people and they are going to get along well. Another factor that comes into play that wasn't an issue for concealed-carry is the inevitable "man with a gun" calls that LEOs are going to be getting. It's imperative that people carrying openly respond respectfully to LEOs answering those calls! Understand the position that MWAG calls put a LEO in and don't threat him or her like they are looking for an excuse to harass you simply because you are carrying openly. Be ready also to be swatted and that puts you and the LEO in a very dangerous scenario. Again, respond respectfully and the LEO will get to the bottom of the problem.

Will there be some LEOs who are jerks and just want to harass people carrying openly? Yes, of course there will, just like there will be open-carriers who will be jerks to the officer. Luckily, both bad apples will likely be few in number. If one walks out of their home spoiling for a fight, they will likely find one. But if you adopt the Golden Rule approach, you will go a long way toward making open-carry a non-issue.

Chas.

:iagree:

So good it's worth repeating.

:tiphat:

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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#7

Post by Salty1 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 7:58 am

very sound advice, I hope everybody reads this twice, now and again on Jan. 1st as a reminder
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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#8

Post by RHenriksen » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:16 am

Yep, should definitely be re-posted in late December - and an article on the TFC page?

"Understand the position that MWAG calls put a LEO in and don't ***threat*** him or her like they are looking for an excuse to harass you"

I think you meant 'treat'...
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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#9

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jun 03, 2015 10:21 am

RHenriksen wrote:Yep, should definitely be re-posted in late December - and an article on the TFC page?

"Understand the position that MWAG calls put a LEO in and don't ***threat*** him or her like they are looking for an excuse to harass you"

I think you meant 'treat'...
Thanks, I fixed it.

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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#10

Post by SC1903A3 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:04 am

I'm going to go by the conflict de escalation I learned in my first class. I'm going to smile and do everything the LEO says.


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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#11

Post by locke_n_load » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:39 pm

So, is there a hard requirement to hand over CHL if the only thing you are doing is OCing and minding your own business? I will give up the license for the first half year or so, but after that, I might ask the officer what cause they had to stop me from my business around town.
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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#12

Post by A-R » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:45 pm

locke_n_load wrote:So, is there a hard requirement to hand over CHL if the only thing you are doing is OCing and minding your own business? I will give up the license for the first half year or so, but after that, I might ask the officer what cause they had to stop me from my business around town.
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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#13

Post by carlson1 » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:21 pm

locke_n_load wrote:So, is there a hard requirement to hand over CHL if the only thing you are doing is OCing and minding your own business? I will give up the license for the first half year or so, but after that, I might ask the officer what cause they had to stop me from my business around town.
This is what we do not need. As already been stated I am sure there will be some LEO's that take it a step further than necessary, but how about the old proverb, "A soft answer turneth away wrath." You have not broken a law and neither does it break a law to stop a few minutes, ID yourself, and have a good talk with the LEO. I promise that will lead the LEO's that have a tendency to lean hard on others to eventually realize we are not the threat.

It also help educate them. There is no way that everyone (LEO's included) can know all of the laws.
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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#14

Post by The Wall » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:51 pm

It sounds like the first day of open carry will have the greatest potential for problems. Some are planning on throwing parties and getting groups of people to walk through shopping Malls flaunting their sidearms. Remember Malls can post 30.06 and .07 signs. If they don't now they probably will after getting mobbed by a bunch of open carriers. Only time will tell. If the Democrats ever get the majority in the state legislature it will all go away. So I guess we should enjoy it while we can.

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Re: Spoiling for a fight? You'll probably find one!

#15

Post by anygunanywhere » Wed Jun 03, 2015 6:10 pm

The Wall wrote:It sounds like the first day of open carry will have the greatest potential for problems. Some are planning on throwing parties and getting groups of people to walk through shopping Malls flaunting their sidearms. Remember Malls can post 30.06 and .07 signs. If they don't now they probably will after getting mobbed by a bunch of open carriers. Only time will tell. If the Democrats ever get the majority in the state legislature it will all go away. So I guess we should enjoy it while we can.
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