Options to practice better carry habits

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Cjwglock19
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Options to practice better carry habits

#1

Post by Cjwglock19 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:21 pm

Trying to once again become better at carrying. What initiates my dilemma is I am a teacher. the fact that I can't have a firearm on campus per our employee handbook leaves me without my firearm often. I have also found that where I used to carry always, I've found myself carrying occasionally. Any thoughts on how I can "fix" this? I've considered a safe in my truck, but I believe I'd still be violating our handbook....I have friends who keep their firearm in their vehicle anyway, but I worry if the search dog ever got near my vehicle.
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A-R
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#2

Post by A-R » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:25 pm

Park off campus

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jmra
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#3

Post by jmra » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Can you post the exact wording from your handbook?
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Cjwglock19
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#4

Post by Cjwglock19 » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:57 pm

From the handbook:

Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun, are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs, or other prohibited weapons onto school premises (i.e. building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school-sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisors call the district office.
"You can say 'stop' or 'alto' or use any other word you think will work but I've found that a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much the universal language."

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jmra
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#5

Post by jmra » Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:42 pm

Cjwglock19 wrote:From the handbook:

Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun, are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs, or other prohibited weapons onto school premises (i.e. building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school-sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisors call the district office.
Sounds like locked in your car in the parking lot is absolutely fine. The key is they used "premises" instead of "property".
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#6

Post by hornetfan63 » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:20 am

:iagree:
It also specifically points out buildings while saying nothing about parking lots.

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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#7

Post by goose » Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:02 pm

jmra wrote:
Cjwglock19 wrote:From the handbook:

Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun, are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs, or other prohibited weapons onto school premises (i.e. building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school-sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisors call the district office.
Sounds like locked in your car in the parking lot is absolutely fine. The key is they used "premises" instead of "property".
IANAL, but I think locked in your car in a safe would clearly demonstrate a desire to keep the firearm away from "school-sponsored activity." I do think that an administrator with a burr in their saddle could press the issue if that particular parking lot was painted and used for marching band practice or similar. You also need to decide what recourse you would have if they found one and let you go. I don't know of any statutory protections for an employee if an employer finds a firearm. You haven't committed a crime, but you also aren't protected.
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#8

Post by jmra » Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:46 pm

goose wrote:
jmra wrote:
Cjwglock19 wrote:From the handbook:

Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun, are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs, or other prohibited weapons onto school premises (i.e. building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school-sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisors call the district office.
Sounds like locked in your car in the parking lot is absolutely fine. The key is they used "premises" instead of "property".
IANAL, but I think locked in your car in a safe would clearly demonstrate a desire to keep the firearm away from "school-sponsored activity." I do think that an administrator with a burr in their saddle could press the issue if that particular parking lot was painted and used for marching band practice or similar. You also need to decide what recourse you would have if they found one and let you go. I don't know of any statutory protections for an employee if an employer finds a firearm. You haven't committed a crime, but you also aren't protected.
Teachers with contracts are very hard to fire. They can only be fired for cause and a firearm locked in a car in the parking lot is not a violation of what he copied from the handbook.
I would suggest that the OP not use his name in posts as Google search could find these posts.
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#9

Post by goose » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:53 pm

jmra wrote:
goose wrote:
jmra wrote:
Cjwglock19 wrote:From the handbook:

Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun, are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs, or other prohibited weapons onto school premises (i.e. building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school-sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisors call the district office.
Sounds like locked in your car in the parking lot is absolutely fine. The key is they used "premises" instead of "property".
IANAL, but I think locked in your car in a safe would clearly demonstrate a desire to keep the firearm away from "school-sponsored activity." I do think that an administrator with a burr in their saddle could press the issue if that particular parking lot was painted and used for marching band practice or similar. You also need to decide what recourse you would have if they found one and let you go. I don't know of any statutory protections for an employee if an employer finds a firearm. You haven't committed a crime, but you also aren't protected.
Teachers with contracts are very hard to fire. They can only be fired for cause and a firearm locked in a car in the parking lot is not a violation of what he copied from the handbook.
I would suggest that the OP not use his name in posts as Google search could find these posts.
My biggest concern is for a "non-renewl." Having experience, it sure seems relatively easy to simply not extend a contract for the next year. And I am not suggesting that will happen carte blanch, I only mention it so that the OP can weigh his/her situation. There are many things that might affect the OPs take on his options, unions, tenure, etc. I don't know what those might be for them, good or bad.
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#10

Post by jmra » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:58 pm

goose wrote:
jmra wrote:
goose wrote:
jmra wrote:
Cjwglock19 wrote:From the handbook:

Employees, visitors, and students, including those with a license to carry a concealed handgun, are prohibited from bringing firearms, knives, clubs, or other prohibited weapons onto school premises (i.e. building or portion of a building) or any grounds or building where a school-sponsored activity takes place. To ensure the safety of all persons, employees who observe or suspect a violation of the District’s weapons policy should report it to their supervisors call the district office.
Sounds like locked in your car in the parking lot is absolutely fine. The key is they used "premises" instead of "property".
IANAL, but I think locked in your car in a safe would clearly demonstrate a desire to keep the firearm away from "school-sponsored activity." I do think that an administrator with a burr in their saddle could press the issue if that particular parking lot was painted and used for marching band practice or similar. You also need to decide what recourse you would have if they found one and let you go. I don't know of any statutory protections for an employee if an employer finds a firearm. You haven't committed a crime, but you also aren't protected.
Teachers with contracts are very hard to fire. They can only be fired for cause and a firearm locked in a car in the parking lot is not a violation of what he copied from the handbook.
I would suggest that the OP not use his name in posts as Google search could find these posts.
My biggest concern is for a "non-renewl." Having experience, it sure seems relatively easy to simply not extend a contract for the next year. And I am not suggesting that will happen carte blanch, I only mention it so that the OP can weigh his/her situation. There are many things that might affect the OPs take on his options, unions, tenure, etc. I don't know what those might be for them, good or bad.
That's a possibility, but in reality if it's locked in his car it should never be an issue.
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#11

Post by ArmedAndPolite » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:01 pm

Depending on how far the next lot is you could park off campus to for peace of mind or lock it in your vehicle on campus if you're willing to risk the consequences of your firearm being sniffed out.

As far as better carry habits, I always place my wallet in the pocket on my non-carry side. It's become a habit now and I don't even realize I'm doing it.
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#12

Post by ScottDLS » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:44 pm

ArmedAndPolite wrote:Depending on how far the next lot is you could park off campus to for peace of mind or lock it in your vehicle on campus if you're willing to risk the consequences of your firearm being sniffed out.

As far as better carry habits, I always place my wallet in the pocket on my non-carry side. It's become a habit now and I don't even realize I'm doing it.
I need to get me one of these drug dogs that can smell a gun in a locked container. I personally drive around with an empty gun safe sprayed inside with Rem Oil for just such an occasion. Between that and concealed carrying my iPhone in a Bianchi fanny pack I know I'm just begging to get tackled by a school resource officer. "rlol"
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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#13

Post by n5wd » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:36 pm

ScottDLS -well, if the tackling SRO is anything like the SRO at my school, you probably wouldn't put up too much of a fight, anyway. :oops:

Goose: if you are a long-term professional employee (i.e. A degreed teacher with more than 3years in your district) a non-renewal has to be documented just like a firing. There has to be some documented problem that has been discussed with you, most likely through a growth plan, and you must have failed to complete the requirements of a growth plan for them to initiate non-renewal, according to the legal beagles at our representative association. They can't just decide they don't like you, and decide not to renew your contract. Administrators, though, don't necessarily have the same protection -according to state law, they can be non-renewed if they fall out of favor with the administration of the district.

CJAGlock19: It appears that your district used the sample handbook as presented by TASB, the state school board association, in their model district policies, and as such, as a matter of law, do not prohibit firearms from the vehicles of employees, as long as you're not in the proximity of somewhere that a curricular or co-curricular event is taking place: i.e. Jane sponsors the rocket clu in the field behind the junior high school. Jane leaves her high school's parking lot and drives over to the junior high's back 40 where she'll use her car's battery to power the rocket launch eqipment by jumper cables. Jane is at a place where a co-curricular activity is happening and legally shouldn't have left her gun in her car, especially since the car is open and the gun is in an unlocked glove box. Etc

Houston ISD had a very well publicized foot-in-moth session last year where they arrested a substitute teacher who had a conversation with someone at lunch that led them to believe that she had a gun in her locked car, which was parked in the staff parking lot. The principal had her arrested after confronting her, the woman had to go and open the car and remove it from a locked compartment and give it to the ISD's police, who arrested her for unlawful carrying. The charges were dropped after her lawyer pointed out that exact same clause in the district's policies (most districts just copy and paste then adopt the TASB's policies as their own) and showed that since she had not entered the school with the gun, she had broken no laws. The district fired her, but since she was a substitute, it was going to be hard to get anything from them in a lawsuit, anyway, and I'm not sure if she ever did file against the ISD's police for false arrest.

Anyway, if you're a member of a teacher's union/association, you might want to ask the association's lawyer for clarification, since they would be the one defending you in any claim against your district, should someone there put their foot in their mouth.

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Re: Options to practice better carry habits

#14

Post by goose » Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:31 am

n5wd wrote: Goose: if you are a long-term professional employee (i.e. A degreed teacher with more than 3years in your district) a non-renewal has to be documented just like a firing. There has to be some documented problem that has been discussed with you, most likely through a growth plan, and you must have failed to complete the requirements of a growth plan for them to initiate non-renewal, according to the legal beagles at our representative association. They can't just decide they don't like you, and decide not to renew your contract. Administrators, though, don't necessarily have the same protection -according to state law, they can be non-renewed if they fall out of favor with the administration of the district.
I don't disagree with most that you have posted. With the exception of an implied (I took it that way) job security. I know of two darn good teachers that were given less than stellar evaluations on all of the soft stuff, just to help encourage them to move on. And it was fairly easy to do. It took time, and yes both went through "counseling" by the principles in question. Two separate principles, two separate ISDs used the exact same MO. "Classroom management" was the favorite topic because it is a huge grey area that every principle gets to define for themselves. "Ms. So-and-so needs to do better at organizing her classroom." "Her transition times were too long, children were talking instead of moving on to the next topic." "She needs to work on keeping the children more engaged. Several students appeared distracted and not on topic." A principle is allowed to run a school the way they want to get the results they want. Within the law and guidelines obviously. Putting a matrix number on terms like "organization" or "engagement" is near impossible so it is the perfect place for a principle to discipline someone if they feel the need. And no school board is going to care or even see it as a negative if a principle has a couple teachers on review. Most schools probably need one or two on review. Isolated, targeted and selective use of power can cause problems for a teacher in some cases. I submit that, outside of a union shop, they may well be able to simply decide that they don't like you and with a little bit of time and paperwork (as you describe) you can be let go.

I'm not preaching that the sky is falling. I'm not telling the OP that all principles suck. Heck, I don't even know if they have gun sniffing dogs. I was simply encouraging the OP to weigh all factors. And I tried to list factors that I was aware of, one of which was job security. OP may be aware of others. Some may apply and some may not. Hopefully this topic isn't even a concern. The OP gets to decide that part.
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