CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

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mr1337
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CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#1

Post by mr1337 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:12 am

I've been to the last couple Trail of Lights in Austin at Zilker park carrying concealed, despite their sign/rules that state that there are "no weapons allowed."

Obviously it's not a 30.06 sign, and it's on city property, so it doesn't carry an inkling of force of law. However, with Open Carry in the picture now, I've been trying to figure out if they would be able to eject a license holder based on the fact that they are carrying a handgun.

It's a ticketed event open to the public, but as I understand it, it is hosted by an organization, not the city themselves. Do they have enough control of the property that they can do something that even the city could not do if the event was not on-going? Could they actually prevent someone from entering or from staying inside the gated area because of their handgun?

Could the city be fined for allowing a sign that says "weapons prohibited" without qualifying that the rule only applies to non-license-holders?

I don't plan on OC'ing at the Trail of Lights. Too many people, too crowded. I just wanted to explore this as a thought experiment to get to know the law better.
Keep calm and carry.

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Beiruty
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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#2

Post by Beiruty » Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:09 pm

If they cannot post a 30.06 or 30.07 then CC and OC are legal in a park. Unless a school is sponsoring the ticketed activity.
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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#3

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:49 pm

Control over the property is irrelevant. Tex. Penal Code §30.06 could not be more clear. It expressly states, "(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035."

The "control" argument is a red herring used by people and organizations that want to ignore the law. Prior to SB273's effective date of 9/1/15, they had been doing precisely that with impunity.

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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#4

Post by OldCannon » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:30 pm

Resurrecting this thread. Just left the Austin Trail of Lights. Now they have an (illegal) 30.06 sign posted at the entrance. Who wants to (pointlessly) tell the city they’re not permitted?
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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#5

Post by TreyHouston » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:19 am

Volunteer emergency services and CC away!
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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#6

Post by ScottDLS » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:59 am

TreyHouston wrote:Volunteer emergency services and CC away!
:txflag:
Or just ignore it and carry anyway since it is legal. Or open carry. :evil2:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#7

Post by OldCannon » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:56 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:Volunteer emergency services and CC away!
:txflag:
Or just ignore it and carry anyway since it is legal. Or open carry. :evil2:
Oh, I didn't say I wasn't carrying :tiphat:
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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#8

Post by ScottDLS » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:54 pm

OldCannon wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:Volunteer emergency services and CC away!
:txflag:
Or just ignore it and carry anyway since it is legal. Or open carry. :evil2:
Oh, I didn't say I wasn't carrying :tiphat:
I dare you to open carry... :biggrinjester:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#9

Post by OldCannon » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:46 pm

ScottDLS wrote: I dare you to open carry... :biggrinjester:
No thanks. There's a non-trivial contingent of APD officers that are just aching to "make and example" of an open carrier (I would not doubt that the mayor would give them a bonus in their paycheck, regardless of the legality of their actions, and no matter how violent). And I don't open carry anyway :)

Note: I know MANY APD officers, and there's also a non-trivial contingent that would be delighted to encounter a citizen that would legally give the city of Austin the middle finger. Our cultural cold war also extends into the police force.
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.


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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#10

Post by mr1337 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:25 pm

OldCannon wrote:Resurrecting this thread. Just left the Austin Trail of Lights. Now they have an (illegal) 30.06 sign posted at the entrance. Who wants to (pointlessly) tell the city they’re not permitted?
Not an illegal sign since the city wouldn't have posted it - the event organizers would have posted it.

Wasn't able to get to Trail of Lights this year, but if I had, I would still be carrying.

Concealing, of course. Still think there's too many people packed in a small space to comfortably open carry while being aware of everyone around me that could bump into me or otherwise interfere with my firearm.

I guess the original intent of the thread was to ask if they could eject/prohibit entry to anyone for any reason whatsoever - even if that reason happened to be carrying a gun - and if they could do so with the force of law.
Keep calm and carry.

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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#11

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:34 pm

mr1337 wrote:
OldCannon wrote:Resurrecting this thread. Just left the Austin Trail of Lights. Now they have an (illegal) 30.06 sign posted at the entrance. Who wants to (pointlessly) tell the city they’re not permitted?
Not an illegal sign since the city wouldn't have posted it - the event organizers would have posted it.

Wasn't able to get to Trail of Lights this year, but if I had, I would still be carrying.

Concealing, of course. Still think there's too many people packed in a small space to comfortably open carry while being aware of everyone around me that could bump into me or otherwise interfere with my firearm.

I guess the original intent of the thread was to ask if they could eject/prohibit entry to anyone for any reason whatsoever - even if that reason happened to be carrying a gun - and if they could do so with the force of law.
No they could not legally prohibit entry/eject you with it being a crime if you evaded the ejection/prohibition. On the other hand there is not really much you could do if they physically barred your entry or forcibly ejected you. Your recourse would be in civil court.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#12

Post by RicoTX » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:49 pm

ScottDLS wrote: I guess the original intent of the thread was to ask if they could eject/prohibit entry to anyone for any reason whatsoever - even if ejected you. Your recourse would be in civil court.
I think it should be official oppression if an APD officer or any other LEO tries to enforce it.

Not holding my breath on that one.
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Re: CC/OC in city park at ticketed event

#13

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:01 pm

RicoTX wrote:
...

I think it should be official oppression if an APD officer or any other LEO tries to enforce it.

Not holding my breath on that one.
True, but they’ll probably figure out a disturbing the peace or obstructing law enforcement charge that’ll keep you in court and/or without a LTC for 5 or 10 years. :???:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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