AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

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RoyGBiv
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#16

Post by RoyGBiv » Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:14 pm

Solaris wrote:
RoyGBiv wrote:Thanks for the update Scott... Subscribing.

Hope to see your testimony next session in support of fixing this. Jerry World isn't the only place. (AAC comes to mind)
I will be going to AAC for a concert (Bruce) in April, if signs are there I will take action.

AAC is owned by Dallas an operated by a private Company according to Wiki. I will verify property records when it is time.
Hopefully your plans would be as polite and professional as Scott. ;-)
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#17

Post by ScottDLS » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:37 pm

Update:

Got a letter from the City Attorney of Arlington today about being denied entry and the signs at AT&T stadium...I'll paraphrase as I don't have my PDF editing software to blank out my personal information.
Dear Mr. ScottDLS,

I am in receipt of your letter dated Jan. 30, where you indicated AT&T Stadium security personnel prohibited you from carrying a handgun into AT&T Stadium. You may not be aware but the City of Arlington does not have control of AT&T Stadium. My staff has confirmed that the City did not take any action, including posting signage, to prohibit you or anyone else from entering the facility. If you have any concerns with how AT&T Stadium is operated, you are welcome to contact the entity in control of the Stadium. Cowboys Stadium LP, One Cowboys Parkway, Irving, Texas 75063.

Sincerely,

Teris Solis
City Attorney
So, very smart...they don't "control" the stadium, they just OWN it. City personnel didn't take any action to block my entry including posting signs...So I guess they bet that the AG won't take any action against the City because they didn't do anything.... That is other then allowing the signs to be posted and not making the Cowboys take them down. I'm still going to complain to the AG, but they have a nice little argument here.

So my hypothetical is:

What if I got wanded, showed my ticket, and walked past the guards when they told me to stop? What are they going to do? They can't have me arrested for violating PC 30.06 because it's not valid on City property. They can't have me arrested for 30.05 because it doesn't apply to CHL carry only 30.06 does, and even then there's a DEFENSE in 30.05...but Chas. has covered this previously...let's just say 30.05 doesn't apply.

Are they going to call City of Arlington Police to kick me out, then the City would be taking an action subjecting them to the fine.

Now I'll tell you what will happen...the AT&T stadium personnel will physically prevent me from entering...so what can I do about it? If I try to walk past and they restrain me, can I have them prosecuted? I won't be committing a crime, so they really have no legal justification for restraining me? Who is going to enforce my right to enter City property (granted by my ticket)?

I will draft a response to the City attorney suggesting that I am being illegally prevented from accessing City property and what are they going to do about it??? :shock:

But I guess we'll just have to settle in for the the long haul. I'm not going to take civil action unless somebody will pay, but I'll raise the issue with the AG. I we're going to find this happening at AAC, Ft. Worth Zoo, city owned museums...

The best parallel I can think of is Fair Park and the State Fair. I seem to remember that when private Fair security was preventing CHL's from entering, somebody brought action against the City of Dallas and forced the issue. Maybe some of you all remember how that got done.

Scott
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RoyGBiv
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#18

Post by RoyGBiv » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:51 pm

Count me in for the legal fund.
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#19

Post by Solaris » Wed Feb 03, 2016 10:44 pm

The simple fact is it is city property and cannot be posted. Pointing to someone else as the sign poster (Cowboys Stadium LP) does not change this.

Ignore the City Attorney and send your complaint to the AG it is now up to him to solve.

I imagine the long term solution is for cities to have clauses in lease agreements specifying signs are NOT to be posted.

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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#20

Post by ScottDLS » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:08 pm

Solaris wrote:The simple fact is it is city property and cannot be posted. Pointing to someone else as the sign poster (Cowboys Stadium LP) does not change this.

Ignore the City Attorney and send your complaint to the AG it is now up to him to solve.

I imagine the long term solution is for cities to have clauses in lease agreements specifying signs are NOT to be posted.
I agree, I just wonder what I can do about it. I think Arlington is trying to say....not us doing it, so no fine for us.
(a) A state agency or a political subdivision of the state may not provide notice by a communication described by Section 30.06, Penal Code, or by any sign expressly referring to that law or to a concealed handgun license, that a license holder carrying a handgun under the authority of this subchapter is prohibited from entering or remaining on a premises or other place owned or leased by the governmental entity unless license holders are prohibited from carrying a handgun on the premises or other place by Section 46.03 or 46.035, Penal Code.
No way I can be prosecuted for CC in Cowboys stadium (at non-prohibited event), but if stadium security blocks my entrance, what can I do about it, or what can AG do about it?
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#21

Post by rtschl » Thu Feb 04, 2016 12:31 am

I'm hanging my hat on the first crop of rulings by the AG's office (i.e. Fort Worth Zoo etc.) to send a "shot across the bow" of political subdivisions. Once those high profile rulings come out in our favor I think the rest of the dominoes will fall and they will mostly comply. But it make take fines being assessed to get through the thick head of some.
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#22

Post by Solaris » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:38 am

ScottDLS wrote:
I agree, I just wonder what I can do about it. I think Arlington is trying to say....not us doing it, so no fine for us.
Yes that seems to be what they are trying to say. Now it is up to the AG to work with Arlington/Cowboys to remove the sign.

Thanks for your effort in writing letter and contacting AG.

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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#23

Post by Jago668 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:46 am

No reason for the AG to even talk to the cowboys. Just start fining the city and let them deal with it, since they are allowing the cowboys to use the land.
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#24

Post by ScubaSigGuy » Fri Feb 05, 2016 2:33 pm

The day before the CFP last year, I was denied access to the gift shop for having a pocket knife. Security wanded me, I told him what it was, removed it from my pocket, and was told I could not enter with it.
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#25

Post by SewTexas » Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:01 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
Solaris wrote:The simple fact is it is city property and cannot be posted. Pointing to someone else as the sign poster (Cowboys Stadium LP) does not change this.

Ignore the City Attorney and send your complaint to the AG it is now up to him to solve.

I imagine the long term solution is for cities to have clauses in lease agreements specifying signs are NOT to be posted.
I agree, I just wonder what I can do about it. I think Arlington is trying to say....not us doing it, so no fine for us.
(a) A state agency or a political subdivision of the state may not provide notice by a communication described by Section 30.06, Penal Code, or by any sign expressly referring to that law or to a concealed handgun license, that a license holder carrying a handgun under the authority of this subchapter is prohibited from entering or remaining on a premises or other place owned or leased by the governmental entity unless license holders are prohibited from carrying a handgun on the premises or other place by Section 46.03 or 46.035, Penal Code.
No way I can be prosecuted for CC in Cowboys stadium (at non-prohibited event), but if stadium security blocks my entrance, what can I do about it, or what can AG do about it?
I agree. You've gotten your answer from the city attorney.

it's time for the AG to start doing his job with this stuff. Has he even levied any fines at all that we know about about? written any letters? anything?
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#26

Post by SRO1911 » Sat Feb 06, 2016 12:51 am

Similar vein, different location - was just gifted a handful of tickets to river city rockfest at the att center in s.a.
Last year it was heavily posted, wondering if they have fixed it.
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#27

Post by ScottDLS » Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:23 pm

Alright folks... I got my response from Arlington and as noted above, they didn't cure the violation, so I'll be filing a complaint with the AG. Now my only minor issue is I need to verify that the sign is still there. I am traveling for business tomorrow and all next week, so I don't have time to drive out there to Cowboys Stadium to verify the sign near entrance H. If somebody lives near by and will take a snapshot, I'll fill out the affidavit this weekend. Otherwise I'll need to wait till next week. If somebody wants to do this PM me and I'll send you my e-mail.

OK for those that want to see the letter from Arlington City Attorney, here it is.
response_Redact.pdf
(54.66 KiB) Downloaded 85 times
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#28

Post by Grundy1133 » Thu May 17, 2018 10:49 pm

Any update on this? I plan on going to the Kenny Chesney concert this saturday and would like to know if they have done anything to rectify the unlawful practices going on at this stadium.
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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#29

Post by skeathley » Fri May 18, 2018 8:05 am

It has been my understanding that if a govt entity leased property to a third party, like a concert promoter, that third party could post the property.

Maybe that is just the excuse they want to give us.

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Re: AT&T Stadium for Non-Scholastic/Non-Professional Event

#30

Post by roadkill » Fri May 18, 2018 8:18 am

skeathley wrote:It has been my understanding that if a govt entity leased property to a third party, like a concert promoter, that third party could post the property.

Maybe that is just the excuse they want to give us.

:confused5
That is true but the sign would still be unenforceable. In the case of a concert I’m not sure what security would do. How would they bar you from entering? Surely they would utilize off duty and perhaps on duty LEO to enforce it. Until someone is prevented from entering the stadium due to carrying while licensed and then they follow up with the AG and possibly their own lawsuit against the city, security company and promoter nothing will change. Kind of late in the game but perhaps a call to the PD to discuss the law and what they will do if called would help ease your entry. If they can be educated before the fact and put out memos/training for officers working there it would greatly help your cause. Most likely if they’re willing to follow the law it’s going to take awhile to get things rolling on their end.

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