Poor 51% signage

[Soccerdad1995]

I spent Easter weekend in Fort Worth at my Brother In Law's house. On Saturday night, I went to some local bars with him. For anyone familiar with Ft Worth, it was the area near the In-And-Out burger, somewhat close to TCU. I, of course, did not carry, and also did not drive. My wife dropped us off, and we took Uber home.

I am pretty sure that almost all of the places we went to were 51% locations since only one had any type of restaurant attached. But I was surprised that I had such a hard time spotting any 51% signage. At the first place, my BIL asked if I could carry in bars, and I was trying to explain that they had clear signage saying you couldn't but for the life of me, I was unable to find any signs.

Of the 7 or 8 places we visited, only one had a sign near the door. I saw another one from inside the bar, on the wall facing in. That bar had a fenced off patio and you needed to walk about 50-100 feet past a number of tables to get to the walled off area. It would be extremely easy to go enjoy a few beers in that, and all the other, places and never be in sight of any signs.

There was an extremely large police presence all over the area, though. And I got the pleasure of being "carded" more in one night than I have been in the last 20 years combined. All in all, it was an enjoyable time. Just a lot of people out relaxing and having fun. I just thought the lack of signage was odd.

[JustSomeOldGuy]

as per TABC, in https://www.tabc.texas.gov/laws/sign_requirements.asp

The second sign, the 51% sign, is to be posted on the premises of establishments where the possession of any concealed weapon is illegal. These are establishments that are licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption whose alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts. These signs have 51% in large red letters superimposed over the warning and the warning notes that possession of a concealed weapon on the premises is a felony.

The above is fairly representative of the other references on their website. They say that the permit and 51% sign must be displayed on premises, but they don't really spell out WHERE on premises.

There is a TABC smartphone app that you can use to check their database for any given location.
https://www.tabc.texas.gov/home/press_r ... 160825.asp

[Jusme]

The closest In and Out near TCU is on I 20 by Hulen Mall. I have to assume you were up in the 7th Street area since it has several bars and restaurants in that area. I have also noticed that many bars in FT. Worth don't prominently post their 51% signs, and are usually in the bar area, only visible after you have entered. That's why I always check my Texas30.06 App before going anywhere. Since I very seldom go to bars much anymore it's not really an issue, but there are some places you could be in violation, and not know it, until you are already inside.

[casp625]

as per TABC, in https://www.tabc.texas.gov/laws/sign_requirements.asp

The second sign, the 51% sign, is to be posted on the premises of establishments where the possession of any concealed weapon is illegal. These are establishments that are licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption whose alcohol sales constitutes more than half of gross receipts. These signs have 51% in large red letters superimposed over the warning and the warning notes that possession of a concealed weapon on the premises is a felony.

The above is fairly representative of the other references on their website. They say that the permit and 51% sign must be displayed on premises, but they don't really spell out WHERE on premises.

Actually, at each entrance, displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Sec. 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
...
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

In addition:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
...
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed or carried in a shoulder or belt holster, on or about the license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
...
(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.

[tx mountaineer]

The closest In and Out near TCU is on I 20 by Hulen Mall. I have to assume you were up in the 7th Street area since it has several bars and restaurants in that area. I have also noticed that many bars in FT. Worth don't prominently post their 51% signs, and are usually in the bar area, only visible after you have entered. That's why I always check my Texas30.06 App before going anywhere. Since I very seldom go to bars much anymore it's not really an issue, but there are some places you could be in violation, and not know it, until you are already inside.

I always check the 30.06 app. It's one of the best around.

[TreyHouston]

Just another reason constitutional carry is going to over well in the great state of Texas!

[Keith B]

Just another reason constitutional carry is going to over well in the great state of Texas!

It still won't allow you to carry in a bar.

[TreyHouston]

Just another reason constitutional carry is going to over well in the great state of Texas!

It still won't allow you to carry in a bar.

True, but the uneducated seam to make up their own laws based off a real one.

[Soccerdad1995]

I was curious about this so I looked up one spot we stopped at. Coyote Ugly. TABC sign = Blue.

No cover charge. And the entire time we were there (from 10PM to approx. 1 AM), the place was packed with people drinking. But I saw nobody eating anything. So close to 100% of their revenues had to come from alcohol during that time (a few people may have had soda's). Unless that place has a huge food business earlier in the day, I have a hard time understanding how they are keeping alcohol revenues to less than 51%.

So maybe my impression was just wrong and these places are all correctly classified as Blue sign locations (other than the couple where I saw a Red sign)? Who knows?

[steveincowtown]

I was curious about this so I looked up one spot we stopped at. Coyote Ugly. TABC sign = Blue.

No cover charge. And the entire time we were there (from 10PM to approx. 1 AM), the place was packed with people drinking. But I saw nobody eating anything. So close to 100% of their revenues had to come from alcohol during that time (a few people may have had soda's). Unless that place has a huge food business earlier in the day, I have a hard time understanding how they are keeping alcohol revenues to less than 51%.

So maybe my impression was just wrong and these places are all correctly classified as Blue sign locations (other than the couple where I saw a Red sign)? Who knows?

First of all, of all the great bars in that area you chose Coyote Ugly?

I believe bars are allowed to provide an estimate of revenue for the first year to determine the sign displayed. Sounds like they may have provided a somewhat jaded one.

[Soccerdad1995]

I was curious about this so I looked up one spot we stopped at. Coyote Ugly. TABC sign = Blue.

No cover charge. And the entire time we were there (from 10PM to approx. 1 AM), the place was packed with people drinking. But I saw nobody eating anything. So close to 100% of their revenues had to come from alcohol during that time (a few people may have had soda's). Unless that place has a huge food business earlier in the day, I have a hard time understanding how they are keeping alcohol revenues to less than 51%.

So maybe my impression was just wrong and these places are all correctly classified as Blue sign locations (other than the couple where I saw a Red sign)? Who knows?

First of all, of all the great bars in that area you chose Coyote Ugly?

I believe bars are allowed to provide an estimate of revenue for the first year to determine the sign displayed. Sounds like they may have provided a somewhat jaded one.

Wasn't my choice. My BIL picked the places we went. We actually went to 7 or 8 different places. I think I liked a place called Varsity something the best. The roof deck was a relaxed and chill place to hang out.