Is it legal? Sign split in two...

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GEM-Texas
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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#31

Post by GEM-Texas » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:19 pm

Actually, most folks here have the mechanisms of perceiving something as white or black incorrect. However, the neurobiology isn't really relevant and I doubt will come up in court. An interesting issue is if you see a sign and do puzzle out that it is correct sign in terms of wording, I doubt your arguments about contrast and color would hold up as you have admitted to noticing its meaning.

It would be better to do away with such signs - start the property rights argument here - again.


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#32

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:15 pm

GEM-Texas wrote:Actually, most folks here have the mechanisms of perceiving something as white or black incorrect. However, the neurobiology isn't really relevant and I doubt will come up in court. An interesting issue is if you see a sign and do puzzle out that it is correct sign in terms of wording, I doubt your arguments about contrast and color would hold up as you have admitted to noticing its meaning.

It would be better to do away with such signs - start the property rights argument here - again.
So if I happen to speak German, then you are saying that a court would find me guilty for walking past a sign that had German, but no English wording? IANAL, but I'll take my chances on this and similar situations.
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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#33

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:19 pm

KLB wrote:
nimravus01 wrote:The way I am reading the law, I do not think a sign split (into anything other than one complete sign,) would be in compliance with the law.
A respectable argument, no doubt one most judges would listen to and consider. Whether it's consistently a winning argument is less clear to me. I intend to treat such signs as binding. Whether others do so is up to them. We each have different tolerances for risk. On criminal prosecutions, mine is pretty low ( I have been known to exceed the speed limit).
Speeding is much more dangerous. Speeding is a black and white violation of the law, as opposed to a risk that a law may be interpreted differently than it is written, the likelihood of getting caught speeding is higher, and the penalty is also higher when you consider insurance and other increased costs.
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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#34

Post by RSX11 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:48 pm

Speeding is much more dangerous. Speeding is a black and white violation of the law
It might surprise you to hear that speeding in Texas is not at all a black and white violation of the law. Texas speed limits are set as what is a "reasonable and proper" speed. The posted limits are an indication of what the majority of people consider reasonable and prudent.

To quote TxDOT,

In Texas, all speed limits are considered prima facie limits. Prima facie limits are those limits that,
“on the face of it,” are reasonable and prudent under normal conditions. To exceed a prima facie
speed limit does not automatically constitute an infraction of the law, as reasonable and prudent
driving behavior is, at times, possible at speeds in excess of the posted limit. However, the burden
of proof of reasonable and prudent conduct under the existing conditions rests with the driver. To
afford a driver this opportunity to exceed a prima facie speed limit recognizes the fact that any
posted speed limit cannot adequately reflect the many different road conditions confronting the
driver on the same highways at different times.

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KLB
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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#35

Post by KLB » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:58 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:the penalty [for speeding] is also higher when you consider insurance and other increased costs.
Well, you can take defensive driving. Sometimes apart from that, you can get deferred adjudication. That keeps the ticket off your record and thereby avoids bad insurance consequences. As for fees and fines, well, I guess I should have slowed down.

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KLB
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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#36

Post by KLB » Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:09 pm

GEM-Texas wrote:An interesting issue is if you see a sign and do puzzle out that it is correct sign in terms of wording, I doubt your arguments about contrast and color would hold up as you have admitted to noticing its meaning.
The statutory wording pretty clearly sets out a contrary standard. But nothing in life is for sure. If you want an amusing example how a clear rule can be completely subverted by judicial rulings, each of which is in good faith, see the following:

http://www.greenbag.org/v12n3/v12n3_levin.pdf

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mloamiller
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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#37

Post by mloamiller » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:30 am

KLB wrote:The statutory wording pretty clearly sets out a contrary standard. But nothing in life is for sure. If you want an amusing example how a clear rule can be completely subverted by judicial rulings, each of which is in good faith, see the following:

http://www.greenbag.org/v12n3/v12n3_levin.pdf
Someone had a lot of free time on their hands. "rlol"

However, oddly enough, I think it is a good example of how laws are made, interpreted and precedents set.
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twomillenium
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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#38

Post by twomillenium » Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:46 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
chamberc wrote:
sarn756 wrote:My daughter spotted a 30.06 sign today with the Spanish on the left side of the door and the English on the right side. I am assuming this to be legal...
Like most situations, it would have to be settled in court. To me, that's enough I wouldn't carry.
You do know that you could be arrested for literally anything, and that the final decision on your guilt would be settled in court, right? If this is the standard you are following, then you are running a risk of having to go to court by being alive, and a greater risk with every single action you take during the day, such as getting out of bed, etc. This is putting aside truly foolhardy things like daring to leave your home, of course.

The only way to truly avoid "taking the ride" is by being dead.
The ride is still not avoided then, it is just in a different vehicle. :tiphat:
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You will never know another me, this could be good or not so good, but it is still true.

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KLB
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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#39

Post by KLB » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:24 pm

mloamiller wrote:I think it is a good example of how laws are made, interpreted and precedents set.
Indeed, which is why the piece is simultaneously amusing, instructive, and a bit scary.


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Re: Is it legal? Sign split in two...

#40

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:43 pm

KLB wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:the penalty [for speeding] is also higher when you consider insurance and other increased costs.
Well, you can take defensive driving. Sometimes apart from that, you can get deferred adjudication. That keeps the ticket off your record and thereby avoids bad insurance consequences. As for fees and fines, well, I guess I should have slowed down.
Yes I know all about the defensive driving option having just gotten a ticket, and I believe my total costs are going to be greater than $200 even with that option. I'm not sure about the average fine for a 30.06 violation but the max on that one is $200.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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