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Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 9:49 pm
by rtschl
Unless there is a vendor who is licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption and whose alcohol sales does met the 51% requirement. But then they are posting the wrong sign.

I would check TABC for the address just to be certain. Though I seriously doubt a hospital is letting/contracting for someone to sell alcohol on premise. But these days you never know.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:59 pm
by rotor
rtschl wrote:Unless there is a vendor who is licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption and whose alcohol sales does met the 51% requirement. But then they are posting the wrong sign.

I would check TABC for the address just to be certain. Though I seriously doubt a hospital is letting/contracting for someone to sell alcohol on premise. But these days you never know.
Here is the code...411.204
a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code , shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).

(b) A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign include on its face the number “51”.

(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.  The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height and must include on its face the number “51” printed in solid red at least five inches in height.  The sign shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

(d) A business that has a permit or license issued under the Alcoholic Beverage Code and that is not required to display a sign under this section may be required to display a sign under Section 11.041 or 61.11, Alcoholic Beverage Code .

(e) This section does not apply to a business that has a food and beverage certificate issued under the Alcoholic Beverage Code.


If you read (b) you will see what the hospital needs to post essentially a 51% sign without the 51% written on it. Nothing to do with alcohol.
The sign at my hospital essentially was a blue sign. Technically from what Charles said they still need 30.06/07 sign to keep LTC holder out, at least that's my assumption.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:30 am
by The Annoyed Man
E.Marquez wrote:
mojo84 wrote:The 51% sign is different than 30.06 and 30.07 signs.

Would have to do some research when I get a chance. Maybe srothstein will chime in.
To the laymen it is worded strangely http://codes.findlaw.com/tx/government- ... 1-204.html

I do not understand why a Hosp would need a "51" sign ???
I must be misreading or understanding
51% or more of income from opioid drug sales? :mrgreen:

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:49 am
by The Annoyed Man
I have no clue who this Holcomb guy is, but I would ask Mr Holcomb if he had personally spent as much time involved in the actual writing of the relevant CHL/LTC law as Charles has done, or if he was as personally involved (as in “lobbyist to politician” personally) in the legislative intent of those legislators who voted FOR it as Charles is. Then quote him what Charles has said.

There is simply nobody else in Texas, with the possible exception of Alice Tripp of the TSRA, who is as intimately familiar with the wording of CHL/LTC law, the legislative intent of its passage, or what it took to get it passed. Anyone else is claiming a level of academic authority that is simply not theirs to claim.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 10:49 am
by G.A. Heath
The Annoyed Man wrote:I have no clue who this Holcomb guy is, but I would ask Mr Holcomb if he had personally spent as much time involved in the actual writing of the relevant CHL/LTC law as Charles has done, or if he was as personally involved (as in “lobbyist to politician” personally) in the legislative intent of those legislators who voted FOR it as Charles is. Then quote him what Charles has said.

There is simply nobody else in Texas, with the possible exception of Alice Tripp of the TSRA, who is as intimately familiar with the wording of CHL/LTC law, the legislative intent of its passage, or what it took to get it passed. Anyone else is claiming a level of academic authority that is simply not theirs to claim.
Holcomb is one of those who has their heart in the right place, but he had to sacrifice some knowledge to make room for the Venom he holds within it. His group (Texas Carry IIRC) is a smaller group and he wants to replace to TSRA as the states leading second amendment advocacy group because he feels they are too willing to compromise. Before anyone says I am making assumptions or blind accusations I can assure you that this is not the case. Unlike the leaders of other organizations he has learned a little bit about negotiating with legislators and that the all or nothing approach doesn't work. Overall he seems like a nice guy but my communication with him was limited.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 12:37 pm
by BBYC
It looks like Holcombe quoted the law that requires hospitals to post a particular sign. That sign is not a 30.06 sign It doesn't look like Charles said anything to contradict that requirement.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:29 pm
by ELB
The Annoyed Man wrote:I have no clue who this Holcomb guy is,...
Terry Holcomb is the founder of the Texas Carry organization, and was the guy sued by Waller County when he filed a complaint about their court house signs with the Texas AG. That's covered in this thread: http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... lit=waller

From what is presented in THIS thread, it does not appear he said anything that conflicts with Charles Cotton's explanation of the law(s) a few posts back. Hospitals are required to post a certain sign, which is not a 30.06/30.07 nor a 51% sign (it is the same verbiage as a 515 sign, but does not have the "51%" nor does it trigger the same part of the law as the 51%). It has nothing to do with alcoholic beverages. The law appears to require only that they hospital post the sign and provide a notice, but it does not create any offense for an armed LTC holder.

(We really need a new name for the sign that hospitals are supposed to post, calling it the 51% sign is confusing because that's not what it is. Better, the legislature should dump all this sign nonsense.)

That said, it appears the head of security at the hospital where rotor found the sign does not know the law. Me, I would not go educate him because that will probably just result in the hospital putting the 30.06/30/07 signs back up. I would just discreetly carry and go about my business.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 1:55 pm
by oljames3
ELB wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:I have no clue who this Holcomb guy is,...
Terry Holcomb is the founder of the Texas Carry organization, and was the guy sued by Waller County when he filed a complaint about their court house signs with the Texas AG. That's covered in this thread: http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... lit=waller

From what is presented in THIS thread, it does not appear he said anything that conflicts with Charles Cotton's explanation of the law(s) a few posts back. Hospitals are required to post a certain sign, which is not a 30.06/30.07 nor a 51% sign (it is the same verbiage as a 515 sign, but does not have the "51%" nor does it trigger the same part of the law as the 51%). It has nothing to do with alcoholic beverages. The law appears to require only that they hospital post the sign and provide a notice, but it does not create any offense for an armed LTC holder.

(We really need a new name for the sign that hospitals are supposed to post, calling it the 51% sign is confusing because that's not what it is. Better, the legislature should dump all this sign nonsense.)

That said, it appears the head of security at the hospital where rotor found the sign does not know the law. Me, I would not go educate him because that will probably just result in the hospital putting the 30.06/30/07 signs back up. I would just discreetly carry and go about my business.
:iagree:
And I'll carry my Kel-Tec Sub2000 in my computer bag.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 2:53 pm
by The Annoyed Man
ELB wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:I have no clue who this Holcomb guy is,...
Terry Holcomb is the founder of the Texas Carry organization, and was the guy sued by Waller County when he filed a complaint about their court house signs with the Texas AG. That's covered in this thread: http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... lit=waller

From what is presented in THIS thread, it does not appear he said anything that conflicts with Charles Cotton's explanation of the law(s) a few posts back. Hospitals are required to post a certain sign, which is not a 30.06/30.07 nor a 51% sign (it is the same verbiage as a 515 sign, but does not have the "51%" nor does it trigger the same part of the law as the 51%). It has nothing to do with alcoholic beverages. The law appears to require only that they hospital post the sign and provide a notice, but it does not create any offense for an armed LTC holder.

(We really need a new name for the sign that hospitals are supposed to post, calling it the 51% sign is confusing because that's not what it is. Better, the legislature should dump all this sign nonsense.)

That said, it appears the head of security at the hospital where rotor found the sign does not know the law. Me, I would not go educate him because that will probably just result in the hospital putting the 30.06/30/07 signs back up. I would just discreetly carry and go about my business.
Then I must have misunderstood E.Marquez’s OP question, because I thought that the issue was Mr Holcomb insisting that hospitals MUST post 30.06/07 signs.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 3:55 pm
by ELB
The Annoyed Man wrote: ...Then I must have misunderstood E.Marquez’s OP question, because I thought that the issue was Mr Holcomb insisting that hospitals MUST post 30.06/07 signs.
Yes, I think so, and I believe E.Marquez was initially confused too. However, the quote from Holcomb was referencing the "non-51%" sign required by Sec. 411.204, not the 30.06/07 signs.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 4:52 pm
by rotor
ELB wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:I have no clue who this Holcomb guy is,...
Terry Holcomb is the founder of the Texas Carry organization, and was the guy sued by Waller County when he filed a complaint about their court house signs with the Texas AG. That's covered in this thread: http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... lit=waller

From what is presented in THIS thread, it does not appear he said anything that conflicts with Charles Cotton's explanation of the law(s) a few posts back. Hospitals are required to post a certain sign, which is not a 30.06/30.07 nor a 51% sign (it is the same verbiage as a 515 sign, but does not have the "51%" nor does it trigger the same part of the law as the 51%). It has nothing to do with alcoholic beverages. The law appears to require only that they hospital post the sign and provide a notice, but it does not create any offense for an armed LTC holder.

(We really need a new name for the sign that hospitals are supposed to post, calling it the 51% sign is confusing because that's not what it is. Better, the legislature should dump all this sign nonsense.)

That said, it appears the head of security at the hospital where rotor found the sign does not know the law. Me, I would not go educate him because that will probably just result in the hospital putting the 30.06/30/07 signs back up. I would just discreetly carry and go about my business.
Which is what I plan on doing next time I am there. I was really confused when I went there the other day. And they had taken down their 30.06/07 signs.

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:18 pm
by TreyHouston
How is anyone supposed to keep up with all of this! I thought Inwas doing pretty good so far! :confused5 :confused5

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Wed May 16, 2018 5:29 pm
by AndyC
What a bunch of nonsense - so we have 30-06, 30-07, 51% and something that looks like a 51% sign but isn't :mad5

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:20 am
by Russell
AndyC wrote:What a bunch of nonsense - so we have 30-06, 30-07, 51% and something that looks like a 51% sign but isn't :mad5
We also have another one to worry about - I hadn't seen one of these signs before: https://www.texas3006.com/view.php?id=17793

Re: Hospitals MUST post 3006/3007?

Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:31 am
by ELB
AndyC wrote:... and something that looks like a 51% sign but isn't :mad5
Which carries no penalty for you as a LTC holder. This is actually a case where the confusion and obscurity of the law works in our favor, mostly. At least if you have to go to court.

But yeah. :mad5