Licensed carry at my apartment complex

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SIGFan43
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Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#1

Post by SIGFan43 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:25 am

I live in a 55+ apartment community, where the community room and leasing office are in the same building. Apartments are all ground level triplexes or quadplexes. Two years ago, the complex was sold, the 30.06 and 30.07 signs went up at the front and back doors of the community room/leasing office, and a handgun lease addendum was attached to all new leases or renewals. When the signs went up, I stopped attending any community functions in that building. At that time, ACH payment of rent was available through the owner’s local bank.
Six months ago, the complex was sold again, to an Illinois company. The local bank account belonged to the former owners, so ACH was not an option anymore. These are the options for rent payment now:
1. Use the landlord’s third party online rent payment program (which has many bad reviews on the Internet, for such things as two payments for the same month, failure to stop rent withdrawals when leases expire, etc. So I will not use that option, and many more of the tenants don’t use the Internet at all. A user name and password is required to be set up, too. Most of my neighbors can’t even remember their 4-digit code to open the entry gate to the complex.
2. There is a lockable “mailbox” screwed outside to the brick wall by the leasing office, used strictly for rent checks. Two of my neighbors told me they used to drop their rent checks here until the office told them their checks were not in the box. Most of my friends pay in person by check.
3. On U.S. Mail, the office manager said she checks their local locked mailbox pedestal daily, and some checks have been delivered as late as a week after the due date.
4. I deliver my paper check for rent by hand on the 1st of each month, but I either have to remove my licensed concealed handgun, or ask the office manager to come get the check from me on the front porch of the office (this seems to irk her, even though she prefers the 30.06 signs be removed).

Two weeks ago, I was on one of my many daily walks around the complex, and noticed the office manager unloading cases of soft drinks and snacks from her car. She asked if I could help her take these things into the community room for a bingo game that afternoon. I said, “I can’t help you with that right now.” She knew what I meant. She replied, “I’m telling you that you can go in that building right now if you help me with these heavy items.” I knew that a verbal request by the office manager to help carry things past the signs on the rear entrance would be okay on a one-time basis, but I’m considering writing the owners a letter, requesting that since I am the only licensed handgun carrier living here that actually carries all the time, would they consider giving me permission in writing to enter that building with my concealed handgun whenever there was a function or to simply hand deliver my rent check to the office.
What do you think I should do? Please don’t tell me to move. I’ve lived here unencumbered for over ten years, and I can’t afford to move.
SIGFan43
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TreyHouston
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#2

Post by TreyHouston » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:36 am

If the office manager is on your side, why don’t you have her talk to them for you? She probably has more pull then you do?
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#3

Post by Keith B » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:37 am

If the office manager is of authority to give you the one-time permission, then she can give you carte blanche permission as well. Just ask her if OK to enter when you are delivering your payment, then you should be good to go.
Keith
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Soccerdad1995
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#4

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:40 am

I can think of some options. Maybe one of these might work?

1. Pay your rent a week early (either using the drop box or mail). Then call and confirm that they have received payment a few days before it is due.

2. Get yourself a Sub-2000 or similar and carry that in a bag while you are in the office (if you care about being discreet).

3. See if you meet the criteria as a "Volunteer Emergency Services Personnel", in which case you could walk past the 30.06 sign.

4. Ask one of your neighbors to carry your check in when they drop theirs off.

5. Continue to ask the apartment manager to meet you on the porch. Further demonstrating the absurdity of the 30.06 signage (your gun apparently only becomes dangerous when it crosses the threshold into the building).

6. Just open carry a slung AR when you drop off your check (you did say the manager is against the 30.06 signage, right).

7. Ask the manager to meet you for coffee once a month and give her the rent check then. Better yet, invite her along on a trip to the range. This works better if you aren't living with a SO, but if you are then just have your SO drop off the rent check.

There are a myriad of other options, but I think you get the idea.
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#5

Post by SIGFan43 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:46 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:I can think of some options. Maybe one of these might work?

1. Pay your rent a week early (either using the drop box or mail). Then call and confirm that they have received payment a few days before it is due.

2. Get yourself a Sub-2000 or similar and carry that in a bag while you are in the office (if you care about being discreet).

3. See if you meet the criteria as a "Volunteer Emergency Services Personnel", in which case you could walk past the 30.06 sign.

4. Ask one of your neighbors to carry your check in when they drop theirs off.

5. Continue to ask the apartment manager to meet you on the porch. Further demonstrating the absurdity of the 30.06 signage (your gun apparently only becomes dangerous when it crosses the threshold into the building).

6. Just open carry a slung AR when you drop off your check (you did say the manager is against the 30.06 signage, right).

7. Ask the manager to meet you for coffee once a month and give her the rent check then. Better yet, invite her along on a trip to the range. This works better if you aren't living with a SO, but if you are then just have your SO drop off the rent check.

There are a myriad of other options, but I think you get the idea.
I do have a walking partner later in the afternoons, and she will carry my check inside with hers while I wait on the porch. The office manager told me the signs were not coming down, even after legal review following the south Texas church shooting. She told me their insurance company rejected the signs coming down. It baffles me how an insurance company thinks it's okay to have the room full of bullet holes and injured tenants, but not okay for a law-abiding licensed gun owner to be present during that event.
SIGFan43
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bblhd672
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#6

Post by bblhd672 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:53 am

SIGFan43 wrote:She told me their insurance company rejected the signs coming down. It baffles me how an insurance company thinks it's okay to have the room full of bullet holes and injured tenants, but not okay for a law-abiding licensed gun owner to be present during that event.
My wife works for one of the largest insurance companies in the US. Based upon the things she tells me I feel that I can safely say "insurance companies are dominated by idiots."

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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#7

Post by Pawpaw » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:56 am

I would see if the office manager will give you written consent.

Since she took it upon herself to grant you one time verbal permission, it is reasonable to assume she has the authority to grant you effective consent per PC §30.05.
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Soccerdad1995
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#8

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:59 am

SIGFan43 wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:I can think of some options. Maybe one of these might work?

1. Pay your rent a week early (either using the drop box or mail). Then call and confirm that they have received payment a few days before it is due.

2. Get yourself a Sub-2000 or similar and carry that in a bag while you are in the office (if you care about being discreet).

3. See if you meet the criteria as a "Volunteer Emergency Services Personnel", in which case you could walk past the 30.06 sign.

4. Ask one of your neighbors to carry your check in when they drop theirs off.

5. Continue to ask the apartment manager to meet you on the porch. Further demonstrating the absurdity of the 30.06 signage (your gun apparently only becomes dangerous when it crosses the threshold into the building).

6. Just open carry a slung AR when you drop off your check (you did say the manager is against the 30.06 signage, right).

7. Ask the manager to meet you for coffee once a month and give her the rent check then. Better yet, invite her along on a trip to the range. This works better if you aren't living with a SO, but if you are then just have your SO drop off the rent check.

There are a myriad of other options, but I think you get the idea.
I do have a walking partner later in the afternoons, and she will carry my check inside with hers while I wait on the porch. The office manager told me the signs were not coming down, even after legal review following the south Texas church shooting. She told me their insurance company rejected the signs coming down. It baffles me how an insurance company thinks it's okay to have the room full of bullet holes and injured tenants, but not okay for a law-abiding licensed gun owner to be present during that event.
By this logic, they should also ban LEO's from the premises. After all if "guns = problems" regardless of who has the gun, then you definitely don't want any LEO's there. Just let residents fight off home invaders using baseball bats and cast iron skillets. After all, that works well in cartoons.
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#9

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:06 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:I can think of some options. Maybe one of these might work?

1. Pay your rent a week early (either using the drop box or mail). Then call and confirm that they have received payment a few days before it is due.

2. Get yourself a Sub-2000 or similar and carry that in a bag while you are in the office (if you care about being discreet).

3. See if you meet the criteria as a "Volunteer Emergency Services Personnel", in which case you could walk past the 30.06 sign.

4. Ask one of your neighbors to carry your check in when they drop theirs off.

5. Continue to ask the apartment manager to meet you on the porch. Further demonstrating the absurdity of the 30.06 signage (your gun apparently only becomes dangerous when it crosses the threshold into the building).

6. Just open carry a slung AR when you drop off your check (you did say the manager is against the 30.06 signage, right).

7. Ask the manager to meet you for coffee once a month and give her the rent check then. Better yet, invite her along on a trip to the range. This works better if you aren't living with a SO, but if you are then just have your SO drop off the rent check.

There are a myriad of other options, but I think you get the idea.
These are all very reasonable answers, but I like best the idea of simply asking the manager for permission to carry past the signs, so long as you keep your weapon concealed so that other tenants who might raise a stink about it aren’t alerted to its presence. She seems to be OK with the idea, having once granted you that permission, and you say that she agrees that the ‘06 signs are idiotic. It’s reasonable to assume that if you had the chance to sit down with her and discuss the implications of her having given you permission once already, and you promised in that discussion to (A) always keep it concealed from view by other tenants, and (B) to not rat her out if you’re ever discovered, AND you pointed out that you could be a lot more helpful to her that way, she very well might extend that permission to you as a semi-permanent thing.

It strikes me that she might be in exactly the same boat you’re in - unencumbered, likes it there despite the stupid rules, can’t really afford to move, and her managerial job makes it possible for her to afford living there. (She does live there, right?) It sounds to me like you have an ally in her, and if I were in your shoes, I’d want to explore how I could (ethically) exploit that to my advantage. Heck, for all you know, she might be a license holder herself, and equally frustrated by the rules.

The suggestion to buy a Sub-2000 and keep it in a messenger bag does work by successfully circumventing 30.06, but it’s not the ideal workaround if people start asking you why you always have a messenger bag with you - particularly at the complex’s social functions. I have one of these little carbines, and they do fit into a messenger bag as advertised, and they’re not even that heavy. It does help that it is compatible with my Glock pistol magazines. But carrying a bag around is a lot less convenient than simply being able to conceal a pistol.
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#10

Post by RPBrown » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:01 pm

Keith B wrote:If the office manager is of authority to give you the one-time permission, then she can give you carte blanche permission as well. Just ask her if OK to enter when you are delivering your payment, then you should be good to go.
Why not just have her give you written permission, if of course she has the authority, and I think she would as being in control of the property.
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#11

Post by rotor » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:14 pm

I am a retired business person and I have never seen an insurance requirement to post 30.06/07 notices or any firearm notices in my business insurance. But, the property owners have posted and if I had a manager that authorized carry against my wishes I would have to replace such person. So don't expect that manager to give you written authorization. On the other hand if the manager has given you verbal notification and it is the manager that would be calling trespass complaints to LEO than you have a verbal permission to enter carrying. Not a perfect solution though.

My bank has "Billpay" service at no charge to me. They will mail a check to anyone that you wish to send it to and guarantee delivery on whatever day you want. As a frugal person (cheap) I don't like to pay postage. The advantage of this is that it is almost like ACH, costs you nothing and leaves a paper trail to prove you paid it. Utility companies still get electronic withdrawal but individuals get mail delivery. So you still are dependent on the USPS terrible service but you have a paper trail and the bank fights for you if there is a problem. I have only once in over 15 years had the bank fight for me and it was a check to my daughter.

I pay almost every bill I have by "Billpay" except for my taxes. Even using Billpay with online banking you can print off your cancelled check.

Hopefully your bank does not charge for this service. If they do than you need to consider switching banks.


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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#12

Post by ninjabread » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:27 pm

Take a first aid class and then ignore the 30.06 signs. :txflag:
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#13

Post by SIGFan43 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 8:08 am

I appreciate all the helpful comments about my situation.

Yes, I also use my bank's bill pay, and paying my rent is the only paper check I write each month. Most of my friends have avoided the new ACH option through the landlord's web site, because they don't know anything about online transactions. I don't use it because of the poor reviews of the third party service that handles that.

The office manager was initially two years ago convinced by the local PD that they should put the signs up, because there had been a couple of really angry tenants who were evicted, and she is unable to defend herself against such threats. Since the church shooting near San Antonio, the local police told her that if only one or two licensed concealed gun owners were present at our community's group function, it would make more sense, and could possibly save lives. She happened to agree with that assumption, and told me so. So far, the owners have told her the signs are to remain up.

I COULD have a civil discussion with this office manager, because she knows I religiously follow all the rules here, and that's why I refuse to leave my gun in the car or at my apartment, and therefore refuse to enter the leasing office/community room. I told her once that if this was a restaurant or other business, they wouldn't get any of my business, along with the fact that the only time I leave my gun in the car is at my doctor's office at the hospital. She told me she has never even touched a gun, and she's a Texan in her seventies. She also knows that I travel once or twice a month to an out of town indoor range to practice, and have been carrying a licensed handgun for nineteen years, first in Arkansas, now in Texas. I also have helped her and several residents set up TVs, computers, printers, modems, etc., at her request. Until the signs went up, I also brought homemade chocolate cake every month to the community luncheon (eventually my friends told me it was mandatory that I bring that cake every month), and still share my cooking with resident friends by carrying it to their apartments. I am known to walk the property several times a day for exercise, and people call me, worried if they don't see me for a couple of days. One 85-year old new neighbor got her LTC two years ago, but her husband died about that time, and she never bought a pistol. She didn't flinch when I removed my jacket to set up her computer and exposed my pistol and two magazines, commenting that she noticed and thanked me for carrying. She even makes homemade bread for me now, because I refused payment for setting up her computer.

I think I'm going to have that discussion with the office manager soon, but I somehow believe it's the owners' policy that keeps the signs up.
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Pritchical
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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#14

Post by Pritchical » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:20 pm

ninjabread wrote:Take a first aid class and then ignore the 30.06 signs. :txflag:
I like this idea, for many reasons. But doesn't the law say that the volunteer has to be 'on duty' to carry past the sign?

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Re: Licensed carry at my apartment complex

#15

Post by Keith B » Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:16 pm

Pritchical wrote:
ninjabread wrote:Take a first aid class and then ignore the 30.06 signs. :txflag:
I like this idea, for many reasons. But doesn't the law say that the volunteer has to be 'on duty' to carry past the sign?
Nope.
TPC 30.06/30.07
(f) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the license holder is volunteer emergency services personnel, as defined by Section 46.01.
30.05 requires you to be performing the duties.

and
46.01: (18) “Volunteer emergency services personnel” includes a volunteer firefighter;
an emergency medical services volunteer as defined by Section 773.003, Health
and Safety Code; and any individual who, as a volunteer, provides services for
the benefit of the general public during emergency situations
. The term does
not include a peace officer or reserve law enforcement officer, as those terms
are defined by Section 1701.001, Occupations Code, who is performing law
enforcement duties.
If you are a ham radio operator and member of ARES or RACES, SKYWARN spotter, etc, you would also qualify.
Keith
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