30.06 Sign on Private Residence

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chasfm11
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30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#1

Post by chasfm11 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:41 pm

Some background. I walk one of my dogs daily and we go down a two lane road that dead ends. About half-way down that road is a house, with about 5 acres that is valued over $1.3M. There is a perimeter fence behind a 20 foot utility easement. The driveway is closed by a double gate that is covered with bark-covered tree saplings in a very tight pattern. I'm sure it was intended to appear rustic.

Today, I noticed a sign on the left gate (gates were closed) that is apparent from a long distance. It is a white background with red letters. As I got closer, I saw that it was in three parts. The upper part of the sign covers the entire width of the sign. On it, in very large letters are the following: No Trespassing. Invited Guests Only and finally Enter at your own risk. It takes up about a third of the height of the sign. The bottom of the sign is divided into two parts. While it was hard the read, the left part is the English version of a 30.06 sign and the right half is the Spanish part. I toyed with walking closer but was concerned about the "no Trespassing" part and there is a surveillance camera pointed about where a car would stop that wanted entrance and there is a keypad where the driver could make that request. My guess is that the 30.06 sign was at least compliant letter sized and they may have been even larger than 1".

Here is the interesting part. The guy who lives there runs a motivational speaking business and routinely has meeting at his house which attract between 30-50 cars. I know from announcements that he has sent to the surrounding neighborhoods that there are fees to attend these events, some of which include firewalking. I always thought that he might be flirting with trouble from the local city which has an ordnance against home based businesses open to the public. They look the other way for things like people selling eggs but I'm not sure the would do the same if they understood more of what he is doing. Several questions came to mind:

1. Should the sign be reported to Texas3006? It is a private residence. My initial thought was no.
2. Why would someone you might expect to want to keep a low profile want to put up a sign like that? I'm assuming that there was an incident.
3. When the gate is open as it always is when the events are held, the sign is no longer visible from the street and you would have to really be attentive when driving in to catch it. I've watched the arrivals and the cars come in pretty close together. I'm sure that a lawyer could argue that it meets the prominently displayed test but I'm not sure that is physically true with the gate open. With the gate closed, there no question but to get in with it closed, you have to jump the fence and be subject to the "No trespassing" command.

I'm only asking because I will now pass that place daily on the walks and answers to the questions will keep coming up in my head when I do.
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JustSomeOldGuy
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#2

Post by JustSomeOldGuy » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:58 pm

1. Should the sign be reported to Texas3006? It is a private residence. My initial thought was no.
Yes. It's a private residence that hosts a home-based business that has on-site events.
2. Why would someone you might expect to want to keep a low profile want to put up a sign like that? I'm assuming that there was an incident.
Shrug. Even if it was solely a residence, there's nothing to stop somebody from buying and displaying a 30.06 sign
3. When the gate is open as it always is when the events are held, the sign is no longer visible from the street and you would have to really be attentive when driving in to catch it. I've watched the arrivals and the cars come in pretty close together. I'm sure that a lawyer could argue that it meets the prominently displayed test but I'm not sure that is physically true with the gate open. With the gate closed, there no question but to get in with it closed, you have to jump the fence and be subject to the "No trespassing" command.
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Oldgringo
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#3

Post by Oldgringo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:32 pm

I know where there is an apparent private residence in Jacksonville that has both a 30.06 and 30.07 sign on their privacy fence and I don"t care. I ain't goin' there anyway.

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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#4

Post by RoyGBiv » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:31 am

So open carry is OK, apparently? :mrgreen:
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#5

Post by oohrah » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:41 am

If the guy is a stickler about it, he probably gives proper notice in the invitation to his sessions. And no need to post 30.07, because if he sees you carrying all he has to do is tell you to leave, and if you do not, you commit Class A trespass.


If your community has an ordinance against home businesses, you could report him. I would not unless it was a nuisance, however.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#6

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:07 am

I was actually thinking about doing the same thing for my house. I am fine with people carrying, but it sure would be nice to know who is and isn't carrying. That way, I can offer to loan the non-carriers one of my extra guns and holsters while they are visiting. That way, I won't need to worry about protecting them in case a BG decides to show up. I have enough on my plate protecting my own kids without worrying about inconsiderate adults who also want me to protect them.
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chasfm11
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#7

Post by chasfm11 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:53 am

oohrah wrote:If the guy is a stickler about it, he probably gives proper notice in the invitation to his sessions. And no need to post 30.07, because if he sees you carrying all he has to do is tell you to leave, and if you do not, you commit Class A trespass.


If your community has an ordinance against home businesses, you could report him. I would not unless it was a nuisance, however.
I believe that his community does have an ordnance. But I'm a "live and let live" type. He isn't doing any harm to any one with his business as far as I can tell. If his neighbors aren't concerned, I'm not. This area has very selective code enforcement which seems solely based on reports from citizens. What happens on his land could easily be a larger private party if it weren't for his advertisements. I doubt if the code enforcement types look for things like that.

Edited to add comment on notice. I agree that it would be foolish to OC on a place like that. I cannot imagine the kind of folks that would be attracted to his offerings would be big on OC to start with.
Last edited by chasfm11 on Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#8

Post by Maxwell » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:40 pm

I agree, live and let live. It's his property so let it be.

Soccerdad1995, I won't need a loaner, but I carry and M&P40 so extra mags would be nice if I'm ever invited. :tiphat:

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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#9

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:06 pm

Maxwell wrote:I agree, live and let live. It's his property so let it be.

Soccerdad1995, I won't need a loaner, but I carry and M&P40 so extra mags would be nice if I'm ever invited. :tiphat:

Max
I can't help you there. That is one gun I don't have, and as far as I know I also don't have any .40 cal rounds.

I could lend you a shockwave (or a KSG) just in case you need more firepower than you have in your primary gun, though.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#10

Post by Maxwell » Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:08 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Maxwell wrote:I agree, live and let live. It's his property so let it be.

Soccerdad1995, I won't need a loaner, but I carry and M&P40 so extra mags would be nice if I'm ever invited. :tiphat:

Max
I can't help you there. That is one gun I don't have, and as far as I know I also don't have any .40 cal rounds.

I could lend you a shockwave (or a KSG) just in case you need more firepower than you have in your primary gun, though.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#11

Post by chasfm11 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:21 am

Update: All the signs are gone as of yesterday. I was really surprised. I cannot see if the signs were moved to the buildings but that is possible. When I saw the sign on the gate, I recognized that his clients would not be able to drive their cars onto his property with guns aboard and that may have gotten him some push back. It will be interesting to see if any of it reappears in a different form. I cannot imagine someone stealing the sign, though I guess anything is possible.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#12

Post by warnmar10 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:19 am

chasfm11 wrote:Update: All the signs are gone as of yesterday. I was really surprised. I cannot see if the signs were moved to the buildings but that is possible. When I saw the sign on the gate, I recognized that his clients would not be able to drive their cars onto his property with guns aboard and that may have gotten him some push back. It will be interesting to see if any of it reappears in a different form. I cannot imagine someone stealing the sign, though I guess anything is possible.
Is this Flower Mound? Why can't clients drive past the signs? (Assumes they un-holster and stow before getting out of the car.)


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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#13

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:27 am

warnmar10 wrote:
chasfm11 wrote:Update: All the signs are gone as of yesterday. I was really surprised. I cannot see if the signs were moved to the buildings but that is possible. When I saw the sign on the gate, I recognized that his clients would not be able to drive their cars onto his property with guns aboard and that may have gotten him some push back. It will be interesting to see if any of it reappears in a different form. I cannot imagine someone stealing the sign, though I guess anything is possible.
Is this Flower Mound? Why can't clients drive past the signs? (Assumes they un-holster and stow before getting out of the car.)
I think they could definitely drive past if they (or anyone else in the vehicle) are over 18 and DO NOT have an LTC. If all vehicle occupants have an LTC then there is a school of thought that you could not drive past since you would always be carrying under the authority of your LTC and hence the 30.06 restriction would apply to you, but not to a non-LTC holder who was carrying under authority of the MPA. Personally, I don't think that a charge against an LTC holder would hold up, but then again IANAL. There is also the fact that 30.06 applies only to buildings, so unless you are driving your car into an attached garage of the guy's house, this is all a moot point.

But if someone wanted to be safe, they could just OC their gun while in the car, then remove their gun (and possibly also their holster) as they exited the vehicle. In that case, they would never be carrying a concealed handgun at all.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#14

Post by apostate » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:07 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:There is also the fact that 30.06 applies only to buildings, so unless you are driving your car into an attached garage of the guy's house, this is all a moot point.
That's incorrect. 30.06 applies to "property" not "premises" same as 30.05 simple trespass.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#15

Post by Grundy1133 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:46 pm

apostate wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:There is also the fact that 30.06 applies only to buildings, so unless you are driving your car into an attached garage of the guy's house, this is all a moot point.
That's incorrect. 30.06 applies to "property" not "premises" same as 30.05 simple trespass.
pretty sure in our LTC class i had last week our instructor said that the 30.06 and 30.07 signs are for premises only... he made it very clear you could walk on any private or public sidewalk, parking lot, driveway, or parking garage... as long as you dont go into the building on whihc the sign is attached... I assume he was just talking about commercial buildings...? Cause the 30.06 signs do say "property" not "premises"... i guess its best to just avoid the signs all together.
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