30.06 Sign on Private Residence

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Soccerdad1995
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#16

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:01 pm

apostate wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:There is also the fact that 30.06 applies only to buildings, so unless you are driving your car into an attached garage of the guy's house, this is all a moot point.
That's incorrect. 30.06 applies to "property" not "premises" same as 30.05 simple trespass.
I always thought that 30.07 applied to the entire property but 30.06 applied just to buildings. It's entirely possible that I am wrong on this point.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#17

Post by Grundy1133 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:13 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
apostate wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:There is also the fact that 30.06 applies only to buildings, so unless you are driving your car into an attached garage of the guy's house, this is all a moot point.
That's incorrect. 30.06 applies to "property" not "premises" same as 30.05 simple trespass.
I always thought that 30.07 applied to the entire property but 30.06 applied just to buildings. It's entirely possible that I am wrong on this point.
we were told in our LTC class last week that 30.06 and 30.07 are premises only. *shrug* i think its best to just avoid them altogether
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#18

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:20 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
apostate wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:There is also the fact that 30.06 applies only to buildings, so unless you are driving your car into an attached garage of the guy's house, this is all a moot point.
That's incorrect. 30.06 applies to "property" not "premises" same as 30.05 simple trespass.
I always thought that 30.07 applied to the entire property but 30.06 applied just to buildings. It's entirely possible that I am wrong on this point.
we were told in our LTC class last week that 30.06 and 30.07 are premises only. *shrug* i think its best to just avoid them altogether
I might be confusing it with the requirements for sign location. 30.07 requires signs to be placed at each entrance to the property, so if a business owner posts signs on the building but not the entrance to the property (parking lot in a lot of cases) the signs would not meet the requirement. Moot point as you would most likely get verbal notice if open carrying, etc., etc.

Maybe I was confusing this with the area impacted by the signage?
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#19

Post by Grundy1133 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:25 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
apostate wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:There is also the fact that 30.06 applies only to buildings, so unless you are driving your car into an attached garage of the guy's house, this is all a moot point.
That's incorrect. 30.06 applies to "property" not "premises" same as 30.05 simple trespass.
I always thought that 30.07 applied to the entire property but 30.06 applied just to buildings. It's entirely possible that I am wrong on this point.
we were told in our LTC class last week that 30.06 and 30.07 are premises only. *shrug* i think its best to just avoid them altogether
I might be confusing it with the requirements for sign location. 30.07 requires signs to be placed at each entrance to the property, so if a business owner posts signs on the building but not the entrance to the property (parking lot in a lot of cases) the signs would not meet the requirement. Moot point as you would most likely get verbal notice if open carrying, etc., etc.

Maybe I was confusing this with the area impacted by the signage?
I know for a fact that parking lots arent covered in the 30.06 30.07 signage because it prohibits you from carrying your gun in your vehicle when you're parked in their parking lot (which they cant do legally). our instructor made it VERY clear that you can carry on any public parking lot parking garage sidewalk or private driveway. (due to the Motorist Protection Act)
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#20

Post by chasfm11 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:54 pm

warnmar10 wrote:
chasfm11 wrote:Update: All the signs are gone as of yesterday. I was really surprised. I cannot see if the signs were moved to the buildings but that is possible. When I saw the sign on the gate, I recognized that his clients would not be able to drive their cars onto his property with guns aboard and that may have gotten him some push back. It will be interesting to see if any of it reappears in a different form. I cannot imagine someone stealing the sign, though I guess anything is possible.
Is this Flower Mound? Why can't clients drive past the signs? (Assumes they un-holster and stow before getting out of the car.)
The sign was on the perimeter fence gate. My understanding, based on signs being place on the outside of a private parking lot was that they applied to the grounds. This house does NOT have a parking lot. They use the front law as a parking area. I think it gets really fuzzy as to whether the parking lot bill applies and this is not an employer/employee relationship it is a business/client one. Further, It was my understanding that a 3007 sign placed in a driveway as it is at our daughter's apartment complex, applies to the entire property.

If I have any of that wrong, I'm more than willing to listen to the differences.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#21

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:01 pm

chasfm11 wrote:
warnmar10 wrote:
chasfm11 wrote:Update: All the signs are gone as of yesterday. I was really surprised. I cannot see if the signs were moved to the buildings but that is possible. When I saw the sign on the gate, I recognized that his clients would not be able to drive their cars onto his property with guns aboard and that may have gotten him some push back. It will be interesting to see if any of it reappears in a different form. I cannot imagine someone stealing the sign, though I guess anything is possible.
Is this Flower Mound? Why can't clients drive past the signs? (Assumes they un-holster and stow before getting out of the car.)
The sign was on the perimeter fence gate. My understanding, based on signs being place on the outside of a private parking lot was that they applied to the grounds. This house does NOT have a parking lot. They use the front law as a parking area. I think it gets really fuzzy as to whether the parking lot bill applies and this is not an employer/employee relationship it is a business/client one. Further, It was my understanding that a 3007 sign placed in a driveway as it is at our daughter's apartment complex, applies to the entire property.

If I have any of that wrong, I'm more than willing to listen to the differences.
I think it's more a question of whether the MPA applies to someone who is also a LTC holder. Clearly a non-LTC holder can drive past a valid 30.06 sign with a handgun in their vehicle since that sign does not apply to them at all. The question is whether you lose that right by virtue of getting an LTC. This also opens up a conundrum of sorts for retired LEO's as to whether they are carrying under authority of LEOSA or LTC (assuming they also have an LTC). That distinction matters in some locations. Either way, I agree that the parking lot bill would not apply if there is no employer / employee relationship.

The other question is whether the 30.06 sign applies to just the buildings or the entire property. I think I was initially mistaken on that point.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#22

Post by Grundy1133 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:05 pm

the MPA applies to any texas resident from my understanding... that''s why business owners can't prohibit people from having guns on their parking lots. It would keep citizens from exercising the MPA which is illegal. that's why 30.06/07 signs dont include parking lots/parking garages/driveways
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#23

Post by apostate » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:31 pm

Grundy1133 wrote: business owners can't prohibit people from having guns on their parking lots. It would keep citizens from exercising the MPA which is illegal.
Cite the law please.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#24

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:49 pm

apostate wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote: business owners can't prohibit people from having guns on their parking lots. It would keep citizens from exercising the MPA which is illegal.
Cite the law please.
I think there is some confusion here on 2 different laws.

MPA gives you the legal right to carry a firearm in your vehicle (if you are legally able to own a gun). That legal right exists independent of the parking lot law.

The parking lot law says that your employer cannot fire you for having a gun in your vehicle as long as you meet certain requirements (concealed, etc). This law came after MPA. Before this law was passed, an employer could fire you if they discovered a gun in your vehicle, but you still wouldn't have violated any laws. The parking lot law has some exemptions for specific types of employers / locations. But that law is not relevant in the OP's case unless there is an employee / employer relationship between the home owner and the people coming to his house. Based on the OP's description it does not sound like that is the case.

So based on this, I believe that the home owner could terminate their business relationship with a visitor / client if they somehow discovered a gun in someone's car. They could also ask that person to leave the property and never return. But no one would be violating any laws regardless of 30.06 (or other) signage. Others on this forum have expressed a different opinion on this last point.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#25

Post by spectre » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:12 am

The trouble with some LTC instructors is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so.
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society,
over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it
and a moral code that glorifies it. - Frédéric Bastiat


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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#26

Post by 3dfxMM » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:47 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:the MPA applies to any texas resident from my understanding... that''s why business owners can't prohibit people from having guns on their parking lots. It would keep citizens from exercising the MPA which is illegal. that's why 30.06/07 signs dont include parking lots/parking garages/driveways
The MPA only covers you as long as you are in the vehicle. The 30.06/30.07 would still apply when you get out of the vehicle.

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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#27

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:30 pm

3dfxMM wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:the MPA applies to any texas resident from my understanding... that''s why business owners can't prohibit people from having guns on their parking lots. It would keep citizens from exercising the MPA which is illegal. that's why 30.06/07 signs dont include parking lots/parking garages/driveways
The MPA only covers you as long as you are in the vehicle. The 30.06/30.07 would still apply when you get out of the vehicle.
i guess my instructor was wrong about a lot of stuff cause everything he told us so far has apparently been wrong according to this forum... he said you can carry on any public or private parking lot/parking garage/driveway cause they arent covered under the 30.06/30.07 signs.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#28

Post by Keith B » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:22 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
3dfxMM wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:the MPA applies to any texas resident from my understanding... that''s why business owners can't prohibit people from having guns on their parking lots. It would keep citizens from exercising the MPA which is illegal. that's why 30.06/07 signs dont include parking lots/parking garages/driveways
The MPA only covers you as long as you are in the vehicle. The 30.06/30.07 would still apply when you get out of the vehicle.
i guess my instructor was wrong about a lot of stuff cause everything he told us so far has apparently been wrong according to this forum... he said you can carry on any public or private parking lot/parking garage/driveway cause they arent covered under the 30.06/30.07 signs.
30.06/07 covers 'property', not 'premises' so includes any real property that is posted.
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#29

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:25 pm

Keith B wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
3dfxMM wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:the MPA applies to any texas resident from my understanding... that''s why business owners can't prohibit people from having guns on their parking lots. It would keep citizens from exercising the MPA which is illegal. that's why 30.06/07 signs dont include parking lots/parking garages/driveways
The MPA only covers you as long as you are in the vehicle. The 30.06/30.07 would still apply when you get out of the vehicle.
i guess my instructor was wrong about a lot of stuff cause everything he told us so far has apparently been wrong according to this forum... he said you can carry on any public or private parking lot/parking garage/driveway cause they arent covered under the 30.06/30.07 signs.
30.06/07 covers 'property', not 'premises' so includes any real property that is posted.
see he told us the signs were only valid for the premises not the property so i guess he needs to update his info?
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Re: 30.06 Sign on Private Residence

#30

Post by Keith B » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:28 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
Keith B wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
3dfxMM wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:the MPA applies to any texas resident from my understanding... that''s why business owners can't prohibit people from having guns on their parking lots. It would keep citizens from exercising the MPA which is illegal. that's why 30.06/07 signs dont include parking lots/parking garages/driveways
The MPA only covers you as long as you are in the vehicle. The 30.06/30.07 would still apply when you get out of the vehicle.
i guess my instructor was wrong about a lot of stuff cause everything he told us so far has apparently been wrong according to this forum... he said you can carry on any public or private parking lot/parking garage/driveway cause they arent covered under the 30.06/30.07 signs.
30.06/07 covers 'property', not 'premises' so includes any real property that is posted.
see he told us the signs were only valid for the premises not the property so i guess he needs to update his info?
He needs to get his info straight. It has always been this way. Unfortunately many instructors are teaching incorrect info like this. I can see those areas that are grey, but this one is a very straight forward so he should be teaching it correctly.
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