Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

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E.Marquez
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Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#1

Post by E.Marquez » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:43 pm

OK, got it, its not a TX law, but an add on charge.
But it is a Federal law..
[18 U.S.C. § 922(q)(2)(A)] does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
I clearly understand in TX, with an LTC I and the gun I carry under authority of my LTC are exempt..

However, as my rifle or shotgun is not a "firearm is licensed to do so by the State" am I reading this correctly, the Fed GFSZ law is applicable to me and my long gun? (assuming I meet no other exemption in the law)

If so, I literally can not go down most any road in Texas with a long gun for more then a few miles here or there as those roads will pass a school :headscratch

I feel like I must be missing something .....Is there a traveling clause Im not finding?

I travel this road most every day.....If Im reading the GFSZ law correctly and the TX exception to it..... I would be in violation of that FED law if I went down highway 190 past the two school in the the map screen shot?????
school.jpg
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#2

Post by bigtek » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:57 pm

Illegal per GFSZ if it's loaded.

Continuing with the "does not apply" quote:
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
On the other hand, "shall not be infringed" hasn't been repealed yet so is GFSZ really a crime? :headscratch
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#3

Post by Mike S » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:07 pm

As I read the exception, it applies to the "individual" that is licensed by the state. The "firearm" that is carried is immaterial (as I understand it), so long as the individual meets the exception. So, with a TX LTC you could travel this route with any legal firearm under the exception (as I understand it).

Or, for those unlicensed by the state that the school zone is in, the other exceptions would apply to the firearm (on private property; unloaded & in a locked container; used by the participants in a sanctioned event on school property; etc).
Last edited by Mike S on Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#4

Post by bigtek » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:11 pm

Texas does not issue a license to possess a rifle, so it's impossible to be "licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located" in Texas. That's one of the arguments for having an AR15 pistol as a truck/trunk gun.
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#5

Post by Mike S » Sun Mar 11, 2018 4:23 pm

bigtek wrote:Texas does not issue a license to possess a rifle, so it's impossible to be "licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located" in Texas. That's one of the arguments for having an AR15 pistol as a truck/trunk gun.
I see where you're coming from on this, & that may be the correct reading of the exception. However, under that interpretation it could be argued that Texas doesn't issue us a license to "possess" any firearm (unlike the Firearm Owner ID Card that some states issue to 'allow' their residents to buy guns or ammunition...). Our LTC merely provides us a defense to prosecution for a handgun where otherwise it might result in an UCW charge. We all have the ability to possess a firearm in Texas, provided we're not otherwise a prohibited person.


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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#6

Post by rotor » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:10 pm

Mike S wrote:As I read the exception, it applies to the "individual" that is licensed by the state. The "firearm" that is carried is immaterial (as I understand it), so long as the individual meets the exception. So, with a TX LTC you could travel this route with a loaded pistol & meet the exception, or travel this route with an unloaded rifle or shotgun (loaded rifle/shotgun not prohibited under the GFSZ law as I understand it if the individual meets the exception, but prohibited under TX game laws as I understand them. If this isn't correct, I trust someone will provide better clarity).

Or, for those unlicensed by the state that the school zone is in, the other exceptions would apply to the firearm (on private property; unloaded & in a locked container; used by the participants in a sanctioned event on school property; etc).
Now I am confused. Are you saying that TX game laws prohibit travel with a loaded long gun?

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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#7

Post by ScottDLS » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:43 pm

If you are licensed by the state to carry or possess any kind of gun, then you are exempt from gfsza regardless of category of gun. Chas. told me this in another post that I’m too lazy to look up now. Other than whether you’re issued a license or not other state laws related to gun carry are irrelevant to gfsza. Where you have a problem is Vermont, which issues no gun licenses because they are unnecessary to legally carry there.
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#8

Post by E.Marquez » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:42 pm

ScottDLS wrote:If you are licensed by the state to carry or possess any kind of gun, then you are exempt from gfsza regardless of category of gun. Chas. told me this in another post that I’m too lazy to look up now. Other than whether you’re issued a license or not other state laws related to gun carry are irrelevant to gfsza. Where you have a problem is Vermont, which issues no gun licenses because they are unnecessary to legally carry there.
That would be GREAT news for me...as I dislike being a felon.

Id really like to have the cite, or explanation of the law I can cite that supports this position.....
I was confronted and not charged as the LEO personally had no issue with it, but said if another officer had responded, it may have gone down differently. I was in a unfamiliar part of TX picking up a rescue dog for transport, arrived after midnight to load up and did not even realize there was a school just over a chain link fence from the place I was at.
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#9

Post by ScottDLS » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:01 pm

E.Marquez wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:If you are licensed by the state to carry or possess any kind of gun, then you are exempt from gfsza regardless of category of gun. Chas. told me this in another post that I’m too lazy to look up now. Other than whether you’re issued a license or not other state laws related to gun carry are irrelevant to gfsza. Where you have a problem is Vermont, which issues no gun licenses because they are unnecessary to legally carry there.
That would be GREAT news for me...as i dislike being a felon.

Id really like to have the cite, or explanation of the law I can cite that supports this position.....
I was confronted and not charged as the LEO personally had no issue with it, but said if another officer had responded, it may have gone down differently. I was in a unfamiliar part of TX picking up a load, arrived after midnight to load up and did not even realize there was a school just over a chain link fence from the auction yard I was at.
What category of weapon were you carrying? A state LEO would have to bring you to the US magistrate judge and the Assistant US Attorney for the jurisdiction, and get you to be charged by information or get him to convene a Federal Grand Jury to indict you. Then the AUSA would have to prove that you violated the law

"(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license; "

Since Texas doesn't even have a license to "possess" a firearm, either we're all guilty or none of us with LTC are....

And I'm not sure if State LEO's arrest you for a federal crime if the AUSA will even take the case unless they're on a joint task force.
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#10

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:09 pm

I know what the GFSZ is, and a few of its general provisions, but I’ve never actually read the letter of the law so I’m not really that knowledgeable about it.

Now, that said, there are LOTS of people who live within that 1000 ft distance from a school, LOTS of them are gun owners, and MOST of those don’t have a carry license. You can’t tell me with a straight face that an unlicensed gun owner is violating federal law when he transports his firearm from his home to a range, or his work, or a gunsmith, or whatever, and then transports it back again. And as an unlicensed person, it wouldn’t matter if it was a handgun or a long gun. People are allowed to come and go from their homes on whatever their business is, Gun-Free School Zones or not. I can’t imagine that the GFSZ law has been interpreted to limit the 2nd Amendment rights of people that live within those zones.

It seems to me that the natural extension of this is that you would not be in violation of a GFSZ while traveling through the zone with a firearm in your car - particularly if you have a license to carry. Isn’t the law’s real intention to keep people with guns from harming students, particularly on campus? Are police seriously going to hassle someone just passing through, as long as he is otherwise in lawful possession of said firearm?
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#11

Post by Flightmare » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:19 pm

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922#q_2_B
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

If it's unloaded, and locked up, you may transport it and not be in violation of the federal GFSZA.
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#12

Post by Mike S » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:23 pm

rotor wrote:
Mike S wrote:As I read the exception, it applies to the "individual" that is licensed by the state. The "firearm" that is carried is immaterial (as I understand it), so long as the individual meets the exception. So, with a TX LTC you could travel this route with a loaded pistol & meet the exception, or travel this route with an unloaded rifle or shotgun (loaded rifle/shotgun not prohibited under the GFSZ law as I understand it if the individual meets the exception, but prohibited under TX game laws as I understand them. If this isn't correct, I trust someone will provide better clarity).

Or, for those unlicensed by the state that the school zone is in, the other exceptions would apply to the firearm (on private property; unloaded & in a locked container; used by the participants in a sanctioned event on school property; etc).
Now I am confused. Are you saying that TX game laws prohibit travel with a loaded long gun?
Rotor,
Thank you for challenging me on this point (sincerely). I'm not sure where I (thought I had) heard that the chamber must be empty on a rifle/shotgun for public carry (based on something in our game laws), but after Googling this for about 45 minutes I appear to be wrong. Texas law appears to be silent on this (or I'm not finding it), which means it's not prohibited. I'm going to edit the part in red above outta my earlier post.


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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#13

Post by locke_n_load » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:44 pm

ScottDLS wrote:If you are licensed by the state to carry or possess any kind of gun, then you are exempt from gfsza regardless of category of gun. Chas. told me this in another post that I’m too lazy to look up now. Other than whether you’re issued a license or not other state laws related to gun carry are irrelevant to gfsza. Where you have a problem is Vermont, which issues no gun licenses because they are unnecessary to legally carry there.
You're memory is good, but your current work ethic lacking Scott:

https://www.texaschlforum.com/posting.p ... &p=1155374
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:I don't know of any holster for an AR-15 "pistol" nor is there any chance that Texas law will change to allow the carrying of an AR-15 pistol openly.

Buy a LAW Tactical folding stock adapter, get NFA paperwork for an SBR and that will be legal under current Texas law. Then, if you carry it openly, get ready for LEO's to be asking how your day is going, are you mad at anyone, why are you walking by this school, have you taken your meds today, did you get fired or divorced recently, who do you pray to, etc. Obviously, I mean this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but carrying a short AR-15 around is going to draw a lot of unwanted attention. Having one in your car or truck, or even your briefcase is one thing, but walking around with one that everyone can see will make you the center of attention.

Chas.
Wouldn't walking by a school with an AR rifle be violating the GFSZA, even if you had an LTC?
Not with an LTC.

Chas.
18 USC 922q
...
if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
...
Since the ATF seems to interpret "licensed to do so by THE STATE" to preclude recognition of reciprocal licenses, I wonder if they consider carry of a long arm "THE FIREARM" to be covered by a Texas LTC?
That was the point of my question.
Exemption:
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located
Since long arm carry is not regulated by the state, nor does an LTC authorize one to carry a long arm, would an LTC exempt a licensee from the GFSZA if carrying a loaded rifle?

EDIT: Didn't realize Scott quoted the code, my apologies.
Now I see your point, but the answer is the same. Having an LTC exempts you from the federal school zone law. All that is necessary is that you possess a license that required a background check to obtain the license. It doesn't even have to be a license to carry. For example, a FOID card in Illinois exempts one from the federal law, even though a FOID card is required to purchase and possess a firearm even in your home.

Chas.
Just giving you a hard time Scott. But yeah, according to Chas, any sort of firearm license for your state in which you go through a background check makes you exempt from GFSZA in your state.
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#14

Post by ScottDLS » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:59 pm

:iagree:

But aren’t you afraid of taking the “ride”? What if you run into a Federal marshal with an attitude? :smilelol5:
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Re: Federal GFSZ Handgun AND long or just handgun

#15

Post by locke_n_load » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:14 pm

ScottDLS wrote::iagree:

But aren’t you afraid of taking the “ride”? What if you run into a Federal marshal with an attitude? :smilelol5:
Got my pre-paid gun carry insurance these days, let's go! Haha. Maybe when I'm older I'll volunteer to be the subject for some case law cases.
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