How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

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CleverNickname
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How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#1

Post by CleverNickname » Tue May 01, 2018 11:06 pm

I've had a Washington CPL for almost 15 years now. I'll be there this summer and will be renewing my CPL then. Non-residents have to apply and renew in person at a sheriff's office or police station. In the process of researching which courthouse would be most convenient for me to renew at, I found out about the following section of Washington state code:
RCW 9.41.300
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;
(b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).
...
In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
IMO it would be nice if we could get something like the above section in red text passed into law here in Texas. I don't like leaving my gun in my car if I can avoid it. Other licensees may use public transit or some other method of transportation and not have a vehicle to leave their gun in when they visit a courthouse. So if carry is banned by statute, at least the government could provide secure storage.

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Allons
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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#2

Post by Allons » Tue May 01, 2018 11:57 pm

Sounds like a good idea ,however I'm sure someone will tell us why it can't be done in Texas.
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AJSully421
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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#3

Post by AJSully421 » Wed May 02, 2018 1:03 am

Texas already has a law that if a police station wishes to exclude licensed carriers that they must provide a lockbox for the handgun.

Texas Government Code 411.207 (b). Went into effect 9/1/2007.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan, 1964

30.06 signs only make criminals and terrorists safer.


srothstein
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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#4

Post by srothstein » Wed May 02, 2018 1:15 am

You mean expanding this Texas law (the part in red):
Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM. (a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.

(b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties may temporarily disarm a license holder when a license holder enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law enforcement facility, if the law enforcement agency provides a gun locker where the peace officer can secure the license holder's handgun. The peace officer shall secure the handgun in the locker and shall return the handgun to the license holder immediately after the license holder leaves the nonpublic, secure portion of the law enforcement facility.

(c) A law enforcement facility shall prominently display at each entrance to a nonpublic, secure portion of the facility a sign that gives notice in both English and Spanish that, under this section, a peace officer may temporarily disarm a license holder when the license holder enters the nonpublic, secure portion of the facility. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height. The sign shall be displayed in a clearly visible and conspicuous manner.
I guess it could be done in Texas. As a matter of fact, I really like this idea for the court rooms and government buildings where it is banned (including during meetings).
Steve Rothstein

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OldCannon
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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#5

Post by OldCannon » Wed May 02, 2018 1:18 am

Anything that requires a person to manipulate their (most likely loaded) firearm in a municipal building is pretty much a bad idea.I can think of many, many logistical issues you'd have to go through to make the idea even remotely safe.

As the law stands in Texas, the state has no burden, no chance of being responsible for an ND, no chance of being responsible for theft of a firearm, and no need to have a small army of lawyers to defend the inevitable lawsuits. Passing a law as you suggest in the red text moves a significant burden of responsibility to the legislative body, plus all the logistical burdens as well (trained person to handle firearms in emergency, secure room in case of ND, etc., etc etc.)

And, of course, ALL of that crap must be carried by _us_, the taxpayer.

No thanks. Your gun, your responsibility. Get a secure lockbox for you own vehicle, one that is sufficiently theftproof to anything less than a blowtorch, and secure your own gun in your own car. Or don't bring your gun to a courtroom.

Having said all that, I think such a law (as you highlight in red) should be enforced on businesses that put up 30.06 signs. Now THAT would help make a lot of 30.06 signs disappear in a jiffy "rlol"
I don't fear guns; I fear voters and politicians that fear guns.


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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#6

Post by Boxerrider » Wed May 02, 2018 6:12 am

The weapon lock boxes I've seen are simple, big, metal boxes. They are near the entrance to the facility, outdoors, with a clearing barrel next to them. The process; unload and clear weapon, receive key from officer, lay/stand/stack your weapon among whatever stuff is already in there, lock the box, and return the key to the officer.
While I'm sure the facilities are nicer some places than others, the thing to remember is you get what the law says you get, not necessarily what you want.
I don't like locking a firearm in my vehicle, but I do have control over the way it is treated.

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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#7

Post by rdcrags » Tue May 08, 2018 11:01 am

I found this to be SOP in Colorado. Ammo is checked, too.
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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#8

Post by TexasJohnBoy » Tue May 08, 2018 11:28 am

This is important...
... if the law enforcement agency provides a gun locker where the peace officer can secure the license holder's handgun.
I sincerely doubt many police stations have this lock box.

And what if the entire station is posted 30.06 (for example College/Community College police stations)? At this point, you would be prohibited from entering any portion of the police station armed, and wouldn't even be able to get to the point of 411.207(b)...?
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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#9

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Tue May 08, 2018 12:56 pm

TexasJohnBoy wrote:This is important...
... if the law enforcement agency provides a gun locker where the peace officer can secure the license holder's handgun.
I sincerely doubt many police stations have this lock box.

And what if the entire station is posted 30.06 (for example College/Community College police stations)? At this point, you would be prohibited from entering any portion of the police station armed, and wouldn't even be able to get to the point of 411.207(b)...?
IANAL, but here is my lay person attempt at interpretation.

30.06 is not valid on government owned / operated property in general. So they need authority through another section to ban carry by LTC's. The code section quoted above gives the LE agency that authority contingent upon their provision of a lock box. If they choose not to do this, then they are choosing not to exercise their available authority to exclude carry, and any signage would be unenforceable. That said, I expect that you most definitely would be "taking a ride" if discovered to be carrying, but at least it would be a really short ride since you are already at the police station.

Lawyers - please correct me..
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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#10

Post by apostate » Tue May 08, 2018 1:06 pm

TexasJohnBoy wrote:And what if the entire station is posted 30.06 (for example College/Community College police stations)?
It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

:tiphat:
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Re: How's this idea for improving Texas firearms laws?

#11

Post by OldCurlyWolf » Tue May 08, 2018 3:22 pm

CleverNickname wrote:I've had a Washington CPL for almost 15 years now. I'll be there this summer and will be renewing my CPL then. Non-residents have to apply and renew in person at a sheriff's office or police station. In the process of researching which courthouse would be most convenient for me to renew at, I found out about the following section of Washington state code:
RCW 9.41.300
(1) It is unlawful for any person to enter the following places when he or she knowingly possesses or knowingly has under his or her control a weapon:
(a) The restricted access areas of a jail, or of a law enforcement facility, or any place used for the confinement of a person (i) arrested for, charged with, or convicted of an offense, (ii) held for extradition or as a material witness, or (iii) otherwise confined pursuant to an order of a court, except an order under chapter 13.32A or 13.34 RCW. Restricted access areas do not include common areas of egress or ingress open to the general public;
(b) Those areas in any building which are used in connection with court proceedings, including courtrooms, jury rooms, judge's chambers, offices and areas used to conduct court business, waiting areas, and corridors adjacent to areas used in connection with court proceedings. The restricted areas do not include common areas of ingress and egress to the building that is used in connection with court proceedings, when it is possible to protect court areas without restricting ingress and egress to the building. The restricted areas shall be the minimum necessary to fulfill the objective of this subsection (1)(b).
...
In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon owner for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
IMO it would be nice if we could get something like the above section in red text passed into law here in Texas. I don't like leaving my gun in my car if I can avoid it. Other licensees may use public transit or some other method of transportation and not have a vehicle to leave their gun in when they visit a courthouse. So if carry is banned by statute, at least the government could provide secure storage.
I recently had to go to the Midland County, Texas Courthouse for some records. It irritated me at the time but I have come to the conclusion that he is probably within the law. The Sheriff of Midland County has declared the entire courthouse building a no carry zone, including pocket knives. But he has provided lock boxes at the metal detector for both knives and pistols. You take the key with you.
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