District of Columbia CCL

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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#16

Post by mdubtx » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:28 pm

Thank you for taking the time to create and update this thread. I just found it today but it is a great read.
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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#17

Post by apostate » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:41 pm

Best wishes and hopefully congratulations in 90 days.

Can you imagine what would happen if DC enacted those licensing requirements for people "peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances" in the district? :shock:

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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#18

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:47 pm

mdubtx wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:28 pm
Thank you for taking the time to create and update this thread. I just found it today but it is a great read.
You're welcome. It's kind of a new thing in DC and having followed the court decisions, I wanted to see if I could pull it off. Since I couldn't find any on line discussions of anyone doing it, particularly someone from Texas, I thought I'd write one. For anyone who is seriously considering doing it can PM me and I can supply more specific details on the courses, ranges, and DC police contacts. I thought I would find some Virginia instructors doing it maybe from NRA HQ in Fairfax, but the one that I could fit in was from a DC Special Police Officer and held in the District. Range was in MD.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#19

Post by LeonCarr » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:19 pm

Thank you for the great information. Pretty sad there are no pubic shooting ranges in "The District".

Just my .02,
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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#20

Post by ELB » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:06 pm

Good job and good luck!

Do renewals require another class in DC?
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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#21

Post by ScottDLS » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:33 pm

ELB wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:06 pm
Good job and good luck!

Do renewals require another class in DC?
Yes I do believe renewals require another course but shorter, one of the people in my 16 hour class got released after 4 hours, because I believe he was renewing. The license lasts 2 years which is not long.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#22

Post by puma guy » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:44 am

mdubtx wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:28 pm
Thank you for taking the time to create and update this thread. I just found it today but it is a great read.
:thumbs2: thank you for your comprehensive post on getting that DC permit.
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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#23

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:57 am

ScottDLS wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:33 pm
ELB wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:06 pm
Good job and good luck!

Do renewals require another class in DC?
Yes I do believe renewals require another course but shorter, one of the people in my 16 hour class got released after 4 hours, because I believe he was renewing. The license lasts 2 years which is not long.
Do you know if the range portion must be completed on a renewal?

I'm not sure about getting a DC license, because most of the places I go are off-limits. Adding a 4 hr. course every two years to the mix and I'm even more torn. If I have to find a range in MD as well, that would be a deal-killer. Something tells me they wouldn't let me do it at the NRA range at HQ. :smilelol5:

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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#24

Post by The Annoyed Man » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:24 am

Scott, you’re a patient man, and I salute you. :tiphat:

One little thing..... in one of your earlier posts, you said that you thought that, technically, carry at professional sporting events was legal, even if unlikely because of the wanding. But in your list of prohibited places, #9 is “Stadium or Arena” - which would seem to make professional sporting events off-limits. You indicated that the various LEO offices were helpful in guiding you through filling out the various forms, but did you get a sense that maybe some of them were sort of actually rooting for you? I’m wondering how the average cop in DC personally views the idea of a legally armed citizenry.

Anyway, you’ve been added to the list of people who are “better men than I”. :lol:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:57 am
If I have to find a range in MD as well, that would be a deal-killer. Something tells me they wouldn't let me do it at the NRA range at HQ. :smilelol5:
Charles, I must be missing something. Why would the NRA range be verboten for a DC qualification?
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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#25

Post by ScottDLS » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:22 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:57 am
ScottDLS wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:33 pm
ELB wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:06 pm
Good job and good luck!

Do renewals require another class in DC?
Yes I do believe renewals require another course but shorter, one of the people in my 16 hour class got released after 4 hours, because I believe he was renewing. The license lasts 2 years which is not long.
Do you know if the range portion must be completed on a renewal?

I'm not sure about getting a DC license, because most of the places I go are off-limits. Adding a 4 hr. course every two years to the mix and I'm even more torn. If I have to find a range in MD as well, that would be a deal-killer. Something tells me they wouldn't let me do it at the NRA range at HQ. :smilelol5:

Chas.
I'm pretty sure the range portion is not required on renewal. There was a person renewing in my class and he was allowed to leave after 4 hours and he did not come to the range. There was also a DC resident who already owned a registered handgun, and he did not come to the 2 hr range portion either. It appears there is a range requirement for registration of a pistol for possession (not carry) in the district, but the way I read it, it is not necessary for registration renewal or CCW renewal.

There are no ranges in DC and I just had a hard time finding a class and trainer in VA that fit with my time frame. I believe there ARE instructors who are certified by MPD that live and teach in VA. It also appeared that there is no DC certification for the ranges, since there aren't any in their jurisdiction. For the registration requirement, which should also satisfy the CCW requirement the website seems to suggest that you could submit proof of NRA training or out of state CCW training.

A Texas certified instructor, would likely qualify to have the range portion waived. This I just observed since several two of my class members didn't do the range training and the trainer said to the DC resident that since he also had a registered pistol he was OK.

The DC MPD website is where I started my research, but there also appears to be some mis-information there. For example it tells you to take your pistol to the MPD for ballistic testing...but I was told by the instructor AND the DC Permit Unit, DO NOT take your firearm into the city until it's registered. And even then they don't do ballistic testing any more.

Also the District Criminal and Administrative Code is available through a free link to Lexis/Nexis. I read it thoroughly to try to understand the law behind the permit requirements. I have my opinions on how the license terms interact with the criminal code, but I will keep those to myself while encouraging anyone to read the law directly like we do in the LTC-16 in Texas. Of course, being an attorney you will probably be able to understand them much better.

The whole CCW process in DC seems fairly ad hoc, and actually is ripe for some commercial person or entity to step in and create a smooth process with a good training course, legal explanations, provide the forms and instructions, and perhaps supply the range. Ideally in Virginia. From my research, most of the certified trainers (DC MPD Web Site has a list) seem to be from security firms, guard agencies, and special police officers in DC and surrounding areas. There is a huge federal and state market for private security in this area as most federal, state, local, and even military installations are guarded by contract firms.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#26

Post by ScottDLS » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:44 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:24 am
Scott, you’re a patient man, and I salute you. :tiphat:

One little thing..... in one of your earlier posts, you said that you thought that, technically, carry at professional sporting events was legal, even if unlikely because of the wanding. But in your list of prohibited places, #9 is “Stadium or Arena” - which would seem to make professional sporting events off-limits. You indicated that the various LEO offices were helpful in guiding you through filling out the various forms, but did you get a sense that maybe some of them were sort of actually rooting for you? I’m wondering how the average cop in DC personally views the idea of a legally armed citizenry.

Anyway, you’ve been added to the list of people who are “better men than I”. :lol:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:57 am
If I have to find a range in MD as well, that would be a deal-killer. Something tells me they wouldn't let me do it at the NRA range at HQ. :smilelol5:
Charles, I must be missing something. Why would the NRA range be verboten for a DC qualification?
Hi TAM -

I noticed that the information that the instructor gave us about Stadiums seemed to contradict the license information given out by the DC MPD. I have a suspicion about the reasoning (actually similar to the signage requirements), but hesitate to speculate publicly.

The SPO that taught our course said that he thinks the average DC Metro PD officer and Fed doesn't even know that there is such thing as legal CCW in DC. He said prepare to get arrested and explain yourself later. :shock: But he also made the point that of you are properly concealing and legally carrying, it's unlikely that they will find out. From what I can tell there is no legal requirement to inform. However, in the scenario of a traffic stop, the instructor suggested that you follow a similar procedure to what most of us in Texas do, which is inform the officer at the first available opportunity that you have a licensed concealed firearm with you (if you do). You ARE required by law to have your permit AND your DC registration on you any time you are carrying and/or have possession of a firearm in DC, respectively.

I got the impression the DC Gun Registration and Permit Unit actually was rooting for us. There was a guy in front of me who was registering a pistol and they were having trouble finding some of his previously submitted paperwork. They sent one of the officers to the records room and looked around for some time before he just volunteered to re-fill it out. The guy also told me about being careful of the 10 round mag limit and how to fill out the storage section of the registration, which I am submitting Monday. I'll let everyone now how it goes...
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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District of Columbia CCL

#27

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:09 pm

Update.

Went to DC Metro PD yesterday afternoon to drop off two pistol registration forms. One for my Beretta 92SF and one for my Walther PPK/s. I had to write the serial numbers down when I was back in Texas over the weekend. (Also went shooting at Crossfire, where I am a member)

One registration was free with my Permit application that I turned in last week. The other one was $13. So I paid and went to drop off the forms. The same guy that took my permit application, said they can't process the registrations for non-residents until the permit application is approved, because it's the same background check. He re-iterated that it would be 90 days minimum to hear back on the permit (Sept. 9 by my calculation), but he said he would take the registration forms and when the permit comes in, they can print out the registration cards at the same time (you have to carry both).

So the funny thing was when he went to file my registration applications, he pulled a small stack of file folders out of a drawer (maybe 5-10) and thumbed through them to find mine and put my paperwork in. I got the impression that the stack was a significant number of the pending applications in the office... :lol: It's definitely low tech.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#28

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:48 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:24 am
Scott, you’re a patient man, and I salute you. :tiphat:

One little thing..... in one of your earlier posts, you said that you thought that, technically, carry at professional sporting events was legal, even if unlikely because of the wanding. But in your list of prohibited places, #9 is “Stadium or Arena” - which would seem to make professional sporting events off-limits. You indicated that the various LEO offices were helpful in guiding you through filling out the various forms, but did you get a sense that maybe some of them were sort of actually rooting for you? I’m wondering how the average cop in DC personally views the idea of a legally armed citizenry.

Anyway, you’ve been added to the list of people who are “better men than I”. :lol:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:57 am
If I have to find a range in MD as well, that would be a deal-killer. Something tells me they wouldn't let me do it at the NRA range at HQ. :smilelol5:
Charles, I must be missing something. Why would the NRA range be verboten for a DC qualification?
Several federal agencies used the NRA range after hours. That came to a quick halt under Obama. I'm sure that mindset still exists within the DC city officials.

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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#29

Post by E10 » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:07 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:48 pm
Several federal agencies used the NRA range after hours. That came to a quick halt under Obama. I'm sure that mindset still exists within the DC city officials.

Chas.
What, federal law enforcement and security personnel training has political implications? Whodathunkit? (Why am I not surprised?)

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Re: District of Columbia CCL

#30

Post by ScottDLS » Tue Jul 17, 2018 9:04 pm

E10 wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:07 pm
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 2:48 pm
Several federal agencies used the NRA range after hours. That came to a quick halt under Obama. I'm sure that mindset still exists within the DC city officials.

Chas.
What, federal law enforcement and security personnel training has political implications? Whodathunkit? (Why am I not surprised?)
Heh...heh...I found out where the Feds go now for training... ;-) When I was at a private range in Upper Marlboro, MD...I saw two guys in tactical gear wth AR15 or M4 pattern rifles practicing. On their vests it said USPTO. For those that don’t know, that’s the US Patent and Trademark Office - Department of Commerce. I did some consulting at their headquarters in Alexandria, VA a couple years ago.

Now you see they need a SWAT team to bust the people selling knock off Gucci handbags and fake Rolex’s on the National Mall...and maybe the guys selling refilled Dasani water bottles outside the Smithsonian. :evil2:

Hey...getcha you’ one dollah watah, one dollah watah, one dollah watah, right here! Don’t pay 3 dollah inside, just one dollah here! "rlol" :smilelol5:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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