Carry rules for non CHL citizens

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C-dub
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#31

Post by C-dub » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:32 pm

Winston wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:04 pm
Do most of you CHL holders just use a debit or credit card to fill up gas since you can't go into the gas station armed either?
I'm aware of only a couple stations in my area that post 30.06 signs and I don't have any problem going elsewhere, like across the street. I could pay at the pump and not bother going across the street, but I'll do so just to make a point by giving someone else my business.
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#32

Post by oljames3 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:42 pm

C-dub wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:32 pm
Winston wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:04 pm
Do most of you CHL holders just use a debit or credit card to fill up gas since you can't go into the gas station armed either?
I'm aware of only a couple stations in my area that post 30.06 signs and I don't have any problem going elsewhere, like across the street. I could pay at the pump and not bother going across the street, but I'll do so just to make a point by giving someone else my business.
:iagree: I was very happy to replace my CHL with an LTC when the CHL expired. I pay at the pump because I like doing that. I go inside if I want to buy something. Read the law. Know the law. Live your life.
Last edited by oljames3 on Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#33

Post by Grundy1133 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:50 am

C-dub wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:32 pm
Winston wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:04 pm
Do most of you CHL holders just use a debit or credit card to fill up gas since you can't go into the gas station armed either?
I'm aware of only a couple stations in my area that post 30.06 signs and I don't have any problem going elsewhere, like across the street. I could pay at the pump and not bother going across the street, but I'll do so just to make a point by giving someone else my business.
same here. I always pay at the pump but I always drive by the doors if ive never been there before and will make it a point to not fill up at a posted gas station.
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#34

Post by srothstein » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:27 am

Winston wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:04 pm
apostate wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:03 pm
If you're worried about getting into trouble obeying the law, imagine the trouble you could get into breaking it.

Remember that UCW upgrades to a felony on TABC licensed premises like a convenience store that sells beer.
Yep! I've never brought my gun inside of any store whether it was legal or not. Especially a gas station or a place that sells alcohol because I know that's illegal with the 30.06 and 30.07 signs. But I did make this post because going to gas stations seems to be one of the worst places you can be sometimes. A lot worse than just grocery shopping. I literally never feel the need to be armed while grocery shopping or going to most other stores. Gas stations are different for some reason. I'm sure a lot of people feel they need to be armed while pumping gas. Do most of you CHL holders just use a debit or credit card to fill up gas since you can't go into the gas station armed either? That would literally have to be a pain in the butt to remove your gun from it's holster every time you needed to go inside of a gas station. Then put it back in while filling up. I'm probably just going to use my card to fill up gas from now on and avoid going inside altogether. And since my gun will be left inside of my vehicle I'll at least be able to get to it if needed. That will be harder if I'm inside the store and something happens. I'll just get my drinks and snacks at a local grocery store from now on since it's a lot safer.
Here is a great reason to get your CHL as soon as you can. The TABC license applies to the parking lot too. If you are unlawfully carrying your pistol, it is a felony in most gas station parking lots, not just inside the store. If you have a CHL, you can legally carry in the lot AND in the store (unless it is a bar with the red 51 sign).

Probably one of the most dangerous places people go is to get gas or enter a convenience store. They are not nicknamed "Stop and Rob" for no reason. I strongly recommend everyone who is eligible get their CHL and carry. I also strongly recommend getting some practice and tactical training too. Those are both rarer than I would like to see people doing, but I really think they are very good practices.
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Winston
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#35

Post by Winston » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:44 am

Yes sir! I will be trying to get my license asap!!! Until then I'm going to leave my pistol inside of my vehicle concealed at all times. And until I get my license I'm just going to start open carry my rifle and keep it in my vehicle when driving. Both my AR and AK has a folding stock so I can easily carry it around and keep it hidden inside of my vehicle if I need to leave it there. I probably won't open carry it everywhere but I think it's time that I keep a rifle close by when I leave the house. Crime is getting crazy in my area and I'm not trying to get out gunned anyways! Most of the time there's more than one of these criminals committing these crimes and a handgun is starting to feel very inefficient for self defense in some of these possible situations.

And yes I do want to do some tactical training and maybe even 3 gun competition stuff. I only get to shoot my guns at the range at paper targets but that's starting to not be so much fun anymore. I'd love to find a range somewhere that has steel targets. That ding sound when you get a hit is awesome! But yeah I've played many paintball and airsoft games for many years so I have some experience with tactical training. I know it's not the same but the concept is for being in a gun fight. lol
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#36

Post by apostate » Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:38 pm

.
Last edited by apostate on Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Scott in Houston
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#37

Post by Scott in Houston » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:29 pm

Wag2323 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:39 pm
On thing I would like to add about your gas station situation. I understand that we can't control who goes to a place of business at any time but if it's a bad area and you have a choice should avoid these places of business.

Legally carrying or not it's better to just avoid situations you feel might require a gun for protection.

Particularly gas stations don't wait for your tank to be empty and locations to fill up limited.
This is what was jumping out at me. You mentioned being somewhere where you thought there were gang members or felt very unsafe... AND you had family with you...

Situational awareness is arguably as important or more so than carrying any weapon.
If you felt in danger enough to justify illegally carrying, I sure as heck wouldn’t be found there for more than a second after I felt that way whether armed or not. My family and I would be gone... out of there.

And as for carrying a rifle, I love having one in my car, but I really think those that openly carry in public do nothing but harm to those of us who support the 2A. And again, if you’re somewhere that you think you need to openly carry a rifle to be safe... LEAVE.


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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#38

Post by Winston » Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:08 pm

Definitely won't argue with that logic! That day I was already inside the gas station with my kid paying for gas and getting snacks and drinks. The usually stuff most people do at the gas station. Those guys showed up after the fact and that's when I noticed the one who walked in the gas station and the other 3 guys were outside hanging around the parking lot. It was like a bad scene from a movie. lol That's when I got a bit nervous. It almost felt like they were going to rob the place for a minute. Then again I might have just judged them based on their appearance. I did notice and recognize the tattoo on one of the guys forearms so I can't really blame myself for questioning their motives. Once I paid for my gas and items I walked out of the store and back to my vehicle. That's when I noticed one of them staring at us in a weird way. I think some people call it mean mugging. At that point I made my kid get back inside the vehicle and started pumping gas. I used the handle so gas would pump by itself. Then I sat down in my seat and grabbed my 1911 and put it inside my pants to Mexican carry it. Then that stupid handle thing disengaged an I had to get out to reset it to continue pumping gas. The whole time I was scanning the area too just to make sure nothing was about to happen. Luckily I was only filling up $20 bucks worth of gas so it didn't take very long.

In the end I probably only illegally carried my pistol outside of my vehicle for a total of a minute or so. Sure that's long enough to still be a crime but I honestly didn't know that. I definitely won't be doing it again but I had to do what I had to do! Also, I do agree with you with the open carrying of a rifle! I've literally never seen anybody do it in the Houston area but at the same time it's better safe than sorry in some situations. With that said if everyone open carried a rifle then it would look like a war zone around here but then again every time you turn on the news in Houston it looks like we're in a war zone anyways! lol I think a rifle will be everyone's best best to stop criminals and even deter crime nowadays but at the same time I also feel that carrying a rifle makes you a target to get killed by the police! I wish people didn't have to run around carrying firearms but the world is crazy and Houston is a really bad city full of crime. With that said I'll probably just keep mine in my vehicle but in a spot that I can get to it quickly. That is also why I agree with you about not going into bad areas and just leaving. I mainly stay at work or at home nowadays anyhow. It's just too crazy out there!!!
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#39

Post by RPBrown » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:08 am

A long time member here has as his signature line "Carry 24/7 or guess right". I have learned over the years that this holds true
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#40

Post by NJ_Expat » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:54 am

Without an LTC, you can have a loaded handgun in your vehicle if:
-The gun is NOT on your person
-The gun is concealed from view with all four of the vehicle's doors open

Therefore, keeping the gun in the glove box or a bag is totally legal. Even keeping it on the passenger seat with a rag over it is technically legal (not recommended, obviously).

You cannot get out of your vehicle with a concealed handgun on your person.

I understand the logic of "judged by 12, not carried by 6" in the defense of your family, but ending up in the county jail or state prison with a sh*tload of fines, legal fees, and a criminal record isn't exactly doing a service to your family, either. Be smart. Spend the money (it's chump change) and get your LTC. Even though the course is required, the education you receive is absolutely crucial and invaluable.
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#41

Post by WildRose » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:21 pm

Winston wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:39 pm
Hi everyone. I'm new to the site and don't have a license to carry. There has been some situations that I'm not sure about whether or not I'm following the law 100% by carrying my pistol and wanted to clear up some questions about these situations. I usually keep a loaded gun in the glove box of my vehicle and sometimes I'll keep it in a man purse style bag that will hang off of my vehicles passenger seat. It's a Maxpedition bag that has a built in holster inside of a quick access compartment. I can access it fairly easy and sometimes prefer it there rather than in my glove box. I will try to upload some photos so you guys can see what I'm talking about. Anyhow this is mainly the way I carry a gun back and forth from my home and place of business. It mainly stays in my glove box or the bag but sometimes I feel the need to keep it on my person. I've been doing it this way for at least 15 years.

Occasionally I will put the holster on my belt on or even Mexican carry my pistol if I feel that my safety or anyone else's safety is at risk from possible threats. Some situations I've been in have made me feel uneasy about certain people and felt like I needed to have my gun on my person in case something happens. I still won't bring my weapon inside anywhere I'm not allowed (no CHL license) but I will keep it on me if I'm near my vehicle or in front of my home or business.

For example (This happened a week ago): I left my gun inside of my car to go inside of a gas station and pay for gas. Inside of the gas station there were some possible gang members hanging around and I started to feel that I could be in danger. It's that intuition you feel that something could possibly happen like getting assaulted or robbed. So as I'm filling up my gas I got inside of my vehicle and grabbed my gun to keep it on my person while filling up gas. Just in case something does happen! I don't want to have to reach into my glove box or bag if these men tried robbing or assaulting me. Sometimes I'll clearly make it obvious that I'm carrying a weapon to make these possible threats think twice before trying to do anything. This has worked for me most the time because so far I've never been robbed or assaulted after doing this. Maybe I'm just getting lucky? I've had a few minor situations where I've been harassed or bothered but never had anyone try to commit a crime against me since I started carrying a firearm. It's as if my weapon becomes a major deterrent against people who maybe thinking about committing a crime against me or anyone else that I'm with. Most of the time no one knows that I have a weapon on my person but I will sometimes intentionally keep it visible on my person to deter possible threats. Which I did do in this example. Do any of you think that I'm breaking the law or doing something wrong?

I have a lot more questions but will start off with this post. I'm thinking about taking a CHL class soon to get more information but thought I could start here. Thanks!
Our castle law applies to vehicles now so as long as it's concealed you're ok.

You are in violation however carrying it out of your vehicle in public in the manner you are describing. If you get caught you will probably be arrested and charged with unlawful carry.

The exception would be that if you could clearly articulate to the satisfaction of the investigating officers and Grand Jury that you believed there was a clear and present danger justifying the use of deadly force under the "necessity" exemption which is a defense to prosecution.

That would be an extremely high bar to reach anywhere off of your own property and in our blue cities your chances of staying out of jail would be slim.

Such a violation would bar you for at least 5-10 years if they prosecuted it as a misdemeanor, unlikely, and bar you from every lawfully owning a firearm at all if you are convicted of a felony.
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#42

Post by WildRose » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:24 pm

Scott in Houston wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:29 pm
Wag2323 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:39 pm
On thing I would like to add about your gas station situation. I understand that we can't control who goes to a place of business at any time but if it's a bad area and you have a choice should avoid these places of business.

Legally carrying or not it's better to just avoid situations you feel might require a gun for protection.

Particularly gas stations don't wait for your tank to be empty and locations to fill up limited.
This is what was jumping out at me. You mentioned being somewhere where you thought there were gang members or felt very unsafe... AND you had family with you...

Situational awareness is arguably as important or more so than carrying any weapon.
If you felt in danger enough to justify illegally carrying, I sure as heck wouldn’t be found there for more than a second after I felt that way whether armed or not. My family and I would be gone... out of there.

And as for carrying a rifle, I love having one in my car, but I really think those that openly carry in public do nothing but harm to those of us who support the 2A. And again, if you’re somewhere that you think you need to openly carry a rifle to be safe... LEAVE.
Great points. Don't enter an area where you feel to have to be armed unless it's absolutely unavoidable period.

Even under license carrying is not an excuse to go looking for trouble or a reason to take unnecessary risks with your life.

In any shooting, even if you are 100% in the right, you can still end up losing everything including your freedom in court if you draw the wrong investigators, DA's, GJ, Judge/Jury.
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#43

Post by WildRose » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:37 pm

Winston wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:39 pm
Hi everyone. I'm new to the site and don't have a license to carry. There has been some situations that I'm not sure about whether or not I'm following the law 100% by carrying my pistol and wanted to clear up some questions about these situations. I usually keep a loaded gun in the glove box of my vehicle and sometimes I'll keep it in a man purse style bag that will hang off of my vehicles passenger seat. It's a Maxpedition bag that has a built in holster inside of a quick access compartment. I can access it fairly easy and sometimes prefer it there rather than in my glove box. I will try to upload some photos so you guys can see what I'm talking about. Anyhow this is mainly the way I carry a gun back and forth from my home and place of business. It mainly stays in my glove box or the bag but sometimes I feel the need to keep it on my person. I've been doing it this way for at least 15 years.

Occasionally I will put the holster on my belt on or even Mexican carry my pistol if I feel that my safety or anyone else's safety is at risk from possible threats. Some situations I've been in have made me feel uneasy about certain people and felt like I needed to have my gun on my person in case something happens. I still won't bring my weapon inside anywhere I'm not allowed (no CHL license) but I will keep it on me if I'm near my vehicle or in front of my home or business.

For example (This happened a week ago): I left my gun inside of my car to go inside of a gas station and pay for gas. Inside of the gas station there were some possible gang members hanging around and I started to feel that I could be in danger. It's that intuition you feel that something could possibly happen like getting assaulted or robbed. So as I'm filling up my gas I got inside of my vehicle and grabbed my gun to keep it on my person while filling up gas. Just in case something does happen! I don't want to have to reach into my glove box or bag if these men tried robbing or assaulting me. Sometimes I'll clearly make it obvious that I'm carrying a weapon to make these possible threats think twice before trying to do anything. This has worked for me most the time because so far I've never been robbed or assaulted after doing this. Maybe I'm just getting lucky? I've had a few minor situations where I've been harassed or bothered but never had anyone try to commit a crime against me since I started carrying a firearm. It's as if my weapon becomes a major deterrent against people who maybe thinking about committing a crime against me or anyone else that I'm with. Most of the time no one knows that I have a weapon on my person but I will sometimes intentionally keep it visible on my person to deter possible threats. Which I did do in this example. Do any of you think that I'm breaking the law or doing something wrong?

I have a lot more questions but will start off with this post. I'm thinking about taking a CHL class soon to get more information but thought I could start here. Thanks!
Let me add. As others have mentioned even where legal open carry of a long gun is gong to do nothing but draw you a quick police response particularly in any urban environment.

In a small town like I live in where everyone is known the chances of ending up in cuffs are pretty slim but in larger jurisdictions you're pretty well guaranteed a trip to jail and some charges made up even if technically you've done nothing unlawful.

There are a lot of very seriously anti open carry jurisdictions in this state that have no problem abusing you to make an example of just because they can.

Try visiting the open carry discussion forum for examples.
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Winston
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#44

Post by Winston » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:21 pm

I actually talked to some guys at a local gun shop today when picking up some ammo for the range this weekend. None of them recommend open carrying my rifle or keeping it inside my vehicle without out it being concealed in a case or bag. Basically it makes all gun owners look bad to do that like we're not being responsible with our firearms. I have to agree because like I mentioned before I've never seen anyone in my area or the surrounding Houston area open carry a rifle. I've seen some guys open carry their pistol but for all I know they were off duty law enforcement and not licensed carriers. Most CHL or LTC holders prefer concealing their weapon is what I was told.

I guess when I finally get my license I will need to look into some different carry options. I did want to open carry my pistols using OWB holsters but that probably isn't a good idea either. Maybe I'll look into shoulder holsters and just wear a jacket when carrying? I always thought most detectives or FBI agents who wore suits and shoulder holster looked pretty cool. That would probably also be my best bet since I only like mid size and full size pistol frames. I can shoot compact guns ok but not as good as a full size pistol. My groupings are a lot better when using a full size pistol. I'm just more use to the longer sight radius because that's all I've practiced with most of my life. I might purchase a compact in the future though to start getting more experience shooting smaller guns. The smallest pistol I own is a Walther PPS in .40 s&w and bought a Comp Tac IWB hoster for it but I don't like using it because it's just too uncomfortable. I purchased those items years ago when thinking about getting my CHL but never got around to starting the licensing process. I was probably too content just carrying my full sized pistols in my operator style bag. Guess I will need to do some research and go shopping after getting my license.
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C-dub
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Re: Carry rules for non CHL citizens

#45

Post by C-dub » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:27 pm

NJ_Expat wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:54 am
Without an LTC, you can have a loaded handgun in your vehicle if:
-The gun is NOT on your person FALSE
-The gun is concealed from view with all four of the vehicle's doors open FALSE - no open door requirement

Therefore, keeping the gun in the glove box or a bag is totally legal. Even keeping it on the passenger seat with a rag over it is technically legal (not recommended, obviously).

You cannot get out of your vehicle with a concealed handgun on your person. TRUE - except if you are coming to or from your residence or place of business

I understand the logic of "judged by 12, not carried by 6" in the defense of your family, but ending up in the county jail or state prison with a sh*tload of fines, legal fees, and a criminal record isn't exactly doing a service to your family, either. Be smart. Spend the money (it's chump change) and get your LTC. Even though the course is required, the education you receive is absolutely crucial and invaluable.
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