Carrying your license to carry

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C-Whit
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Carrying your license to carry

#1

Post by C-Whit » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:22 pm

While I know it is a good idea to carry you LTC at all times, especially if you are carrying, but is it the law? I have managed to get miles down the road to realize I don’t have my wallet and I panic because I am always carrying. I have a photo of it on my phone, but is that enough?


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#2

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:28 pm

There is no longer a penalty for failing to show it, but I believe you do need to have it if carrying. There would be an interesting situation if you were in a vehicle, though, because you don't need to have an LTC at all to carry under MPA. It would get even more convoluted if there was another adult in the car with you, since they could be carrying that same gun under MPA (thinking of after you put your gun in the center console or such).

To take an extreme case, let's say you leave the house unarmed and catch a ride somewhere with your buddy who doesn't have an LTC. Buddy has a gun in his glove box which is closer to you than it is to him. Would you need to have your LTC then? I think not, because even though the gun is "on or about your person" you would be carrying under MPA, albeit unknowingly. Same should apply to other situations where a gun is "on or about your person" IMHO. But then again, IANAL, and I did NOT sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


flechero
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#3

Post by flechero » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:39 pm

Just keep LTC in your wallet behind your DL... you should have the wallet and DL with you when you leave the house anyway and you should be carrying all the time... so it all just works.

If you forget the wallet, well... it happens. Although I imagine that's pretty darn rare. (at least it is for me)

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PriestTheRunner
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#4

Post by PriestTheRunner » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:43 pm

C-Whit wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:22 pm
While I know it is a good idea to carry you LTC at all times, especially if you are carrying, but is it the law? I have managed to get miles down the road to realize I don’t have my wallet and I panic because I am always carrying. I have a photo of it on my phone, but is that enough?
(1) Don't ever leave your LTC or DL.
and (2) In the event that you fail at (1), have your DL number memorized. That has helped me get out of some tickets, actually....

But mainly (1).

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bblhd672
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#5

Post by bblhd672 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:45 pm

C-Whit wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:22 pm
While I know it is a good idea to carry you LTC at all times, especially if you are carrying, but is it the law? I have managed to get miles down the road to realize I don’t have my wallet and I panic because I am always carrying. I have a photo of it on my phone, but is that enough?
From LTC-16
GC §411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE.
If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder’s person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder’s driver’s license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder’s handgun license.
Whether or not a magistrate or peace officer will accept images of your drivers license and LTC on your phone is unknown.
The left lies about everything. Truth is a liberal value, and truth is a conservative value, but it has never been a left-wing value. People on the left say whatever advances their immediate agenda. Power is their moral lodestar; therefore, truth is always subservient to it. - Dennis Prager

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Flightmare
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#6

Post by Flightmare » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:52 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:28 pm
There is no longer a penalty for failing to show it, but I believe you do need to have it if carrying. There would be an interesting situation if you were in a vehicle, though, because you don't need to have an LTC at all to carry under MPA. It would get even more convoluted if there was another adult in the car with you, since they could be carrying that same gun under MPA (thinking of after you put your gun in the center console or such).

To take an extreme case, let's say you leave the house unarmed and catch a ride somewhere with your buddy who doesn't have an LTC. Buddy has a gun in his glove box which is closer to you than it is to him. Would you need to have your LTC then? I think not, because even though the gun is "on or about your person" you would be carrying under MPA, albeit unknowingly. Same should apply to other situations where a gun is "on or about your person" IMHO. But then again, IANAL, and I did NOT sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I believe that in order to qualify under the MPA, the vehicle needs to be a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control. Therefore being a passenger in a friend's car would not qualify under the MPA. I welcome a correction if I'm wrong.
Deplorable lunatic since 2016


6L105
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#7

Post by 6L105 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:57 pm

I saw a video once where an LEO was discussing traffic stops. He stated that when a citizen presented an LTC card to him, he knew he was dealing with someone who obeys the law and had passed a criminal background check. He considered the LTC card to be the closest thing there is to a Good Citizen ID.

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#8

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:02 pm

The black letter law requires the LTC to be on your person when you are carrying under the authority of your license. (TPC §46.15(b)(6)) As a practical matter, I can't imagine any LEO making an arrest when they can run your TDL and confirm you have an LTC. If an arrest was made, then only a dirtbag DA would accept the charges. If it's an out-of-state handgun permit, that's a different story.

Chas.
TPC §46.15(b)(6) wrote:(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(6) is carrying:
  • (A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and

    (B) a handgun:
    • (i) in a concealed manner; or

      (ii) in a shoulder or belt holster;

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mojo84
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#9

Post by mojo84 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:55 pm

I keep a copy of my DL, LTC and Insurance cards on my phone just in case. Seems I am more likely to forget my wallet than my phone. However, I always try to make sure I have my wallet with my ID's with me anytime I leave the house.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.

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Maxwell
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#10

Post by Maxwell » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm

The 4 things I always have in a traffic stop are: My DL, my LTC, my auto insurance card, and a little patience and respect for the LEO.

I forgot my wallet once while carrying. As soon as I realized it I took the holster off and put everything in the console.

Like others have suggested I carry my DL & LTC (and insurance card) in the same place in my wallet. I can't pull one out without the other.
I never let schooling interfere with my education. Mark Twain


lildave40
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#11

Post by lildave40 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:29 pm

By a wallet that can hold to ids separate. Problem solved


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#12

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:07 pm

Flightmare wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:52 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:28 pm
There is no longer a penalty for failing to show it, but I believe you do need to have it if carrying. There would be an interesting situation if you were in a vehicle, though, because you don't need to have an LTC at all to carry under MPA. It would get even more convoluted if there was another adult in the car with you, since they could be carrying that same gun under MPA (thinking of after you put your gun in the center console or such).

To take an extreme case, let's say you leave the house unarmed and catch a ride somewhere with your buddy who doesn't have an LTC. Buddy has a gun in his glove box which is closer to you than it is to him. Would you need to have your LTC then? I think not, because even though the gun is "on or about your person" you would be carrying under MPA, albeit unknowingly. Same should apply to other situations where a gun is "on or about your person" IMHO. But then again, IANAL, and I did NOT sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
I believe that in order to qualify under the MPA, the vehicle needs to be a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control. Therefore being a passenger in a friend's car would not qualify under the MPA. I welcome a correction if I'm wrong.
Interesting. So in my hypothetical where your friend likes to keep his handgun in the glove box, which is literally inches from the passenger's hands, I wonder if the non-LTC passenger would actually be legal? It seems like it would be difficult to say that a gun which is sitting in an unlocked container inches from your hands is not "on or about your person".

Come to think of it, that's probably a very bad place for anyone to keep their handgun in the first place. What if they give a co-worker a ride to lunch and the co-worker just happens to have a felony conviction in his past? The driver may not know about the past felony, and the co-worker may not know about the gun. Could be a bad situation all around.

I actually had a strange situation just this past Sunday. I was leaving a casino in LA and realized that I had forgotten to cash a slot ticket. So I pulled up to the valet area at the front with the intention of just running in and leaving my wife in the car. Problem is that my gun was in the car, and it's not allowed in the casino in that state (I believe). I also believe there is no MPA in LA. So my choices were to either go park the car, or ask my wife to run in and cash the ticket for me. I did the latter. She wasn't overly pleased.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


Caliber
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#13

Post by Caliber » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:12 pm

Maxwell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm
The 4 things I always have in a traffic stop are: My DL, my LTC, my auto insurance card, and a little patience and respect for the LEO.

I forgot my wallet once while carrying. As soon as I realized it I took the holster off and put everything in the console.

Like others have suggested I carry my DL & LTC (and insurance card) in the same place in my wallet. I can't pull one out without the other.
You did not have to put the gun in your console. You can have it anywhere inside the vehicle including on your person as long as it's not in plain view.


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#14

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:20 pm

Caliber wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:12 pm
Maxwell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm
The 4 things I always have in a traffic stop are: My DL, my LTC, my auto insurance card, and a little patience and respect for the LEO.

I forgot my wallet once while carrying. As soon as I realized it I took the holster off and put everything in the console.

Like others have suggested I carry my DL & LTC (and insurance card) in the same place in my wallet. I can't pull one out without the other.
You did not have to put the gun in your console. You can have it anywhere inside the vehicle including on your person as long as it's not in plain view.
I think this gets back to the question of whether you are always carrying under the authority of your LTC, even when you can legally carry under other authority such as the MPA.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Carrying your license to carry

#15

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:09 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:20 pm
Caliber wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:12 pm
Maxwell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm
The 4 things I always have in a traffic stop are: My DL, my LTC, my auto insurance card, and a little patience and respect for the LEO.

I forgot my wallet once while carrying. As soon as I realized it I took the holster off and put everything in the console.

Like others have suggested I carry my DL & LTC (and insurance card) in the same place in my wallet. I can't pull one out without the other.
You did not have to put the gun in your console. You can have it anywhere inside the vehicle including on your person as long as it's not in plain view.
I think this gets back to the question of whether you are always carrying under the authority of your LTC, even when you can legally carry under other authority such as the MPA.
The only time you are carrying under the authority of your LTC is when carrying in that location would be illegal without an LTC. You are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you are in your car or one under your control.

Chas.

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