Carrying your license to carry

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

Moderators: Charles L. Cotton, carlson1


roadkill
Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#16

Post by roadkill » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:23 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:09 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:20 pm
Caliber wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:12 pm
Maxwell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm
The 4 things I always have in a traffic stop are: My DL, my LTC, my auto insurance card, and a little patience and respect for the LEO.

I forgot my wallet once while carrying. As soon as I realized it I took the holster off and put everything in the console.

Like others have suggested I carry my DL & LTC (and insurance card) in the same place in my wallet. I can't pull one out without the other.
You did not have to put the gun in your console. You can have it anywhere inside the vehicle including on your person as long as it's not in plain view.
I think this gets back to the question of whether you are always carrying under the authority of your LTC, even when you can legally carry under other authority such as the MPA.
The only time you are carrying under the authority of your LTC is when carrying in that location would be illegal without an LTC. You are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you are in your car or one under your control.

Chas.
With the exception of open carry.


Abraham
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 8399
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:43 am

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#17

Post by Abraham » Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:07 am

Sorry officer, I left it at home.

Are you an adult?

No, sorry, while none of us is perfect, I think maybe 25/30 years ago I left home without my...fill in the blank.

This type thing should only happen...but rarely.


Don T
Junior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:28 am
Location: Dallas area

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#18

Post by Don T » Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:48 pm

lildave40 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:29 pm
By a wallet that can hold to ids separate. Problem solved
My cell phone case has a slot on the back with just enough room for my TDL, LTC, debit or credit card, and insurance info. I've found that I am much less likely to go anywhere without my phone.

User avatar

bigtek
Banned
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:48 am

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#19

Post by bigtek » Sat Oct 20, 2018 2:13 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:02 pm
The black letter law requires the LTC to be on your person when you are carrying under the authority of your license. (TPC §46.15(b)(6)) As a practical matter, I can't imagine any LEO making an arrest when they can run your TDL and confirm you have an LTC. If an arrest was made, then only a dirtbag DA would accept the charges.
I have no difficulty believing some LEO would arrest LTC for this technical violation of the law. After all, there are ample examples of LEO threatening to arrest LTC if they carry at events at public parks, and so on, despite the clear, unambiguous exception in 30.06(e) and 30.07(e) for government property, regardless who manages the government owned property. If they will threaten arrest, or (under color of law) deny access to, LTC who are in full compliance with the law, it's hard to imagine they wouldn't jump at the opportunity to bust LTC who technically aren't.
Deck the halls with nitroglycerin
Fa la la la la la la la la!
Strike a match and see who's missin'
Fa la la la la la la la la!

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 17432
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#20

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:24 pm

roadkill wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:23 pm
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:09 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:20 pm
Caliber wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:12 pm
Maxwell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm
The 4 things I always have in a traffic stop are: My DL, my LTC, my auto insurance card, and a little patience and respect for the LEO.

I forgot my wallet once while carrying. As soon as I realized it I took the holster off and put everything in the console.

Like others have suggested I carry my DL & LTC (and insurance card) in the same place in my wallet. I can't pull one out without the other.
You did not have to put the gun in your console. You can have it anywhere inside the vehicle including on your person as long as it's not in plain view.
I think this gets back to the question of whether you are always carrying under the authority of your LTC, even when you can legally carry under other authority such as the MPA.
The only time you are carrying under the authority of your LTC is when carrying in that location would be illegal without an LTC. You are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you are in your car or one under your control.

Chas.
With the exception of open carry.
I realize that this is a quirk that only a lawyer could love, but you are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you open-carry in your car. Licensees are simply exempt from the concealment requirement while in your car.

Chas.
Image

User avatar

Maxwell
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#21

Post by Maxwell » Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:45 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:24 pm
roadkill wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:23 pm
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:09 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:20 pm
Caliber wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:12 pm
Maxwell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm
The 4 things I always have in a traffic stop are: My DL, my LTC, my auto insurance card, and a little patience and respect for the LEO.

I forgot my wallet once while carrying. As soon as I realized it I took the holster off and put everything in the console.

Like others have suggested I carry my DL & LTC (and insurance card) in the same place in my wallet. I can't pull one out without the other.
You did not have to put the gun in your console. You can have it anywhere inside the vehicle including on your person as long as it's not in plain view.
I think this gets back to the question of whether you are always carrying under the authority of your LTC, even when you can legally carry under other authority such as the MPA.
The only time you are carrying under the authority of your LTC is when carrying in that location would be illegal without an LTC. You are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you are in your car or one under your control.

Chas.
With the exception of open carry.
I realize that this is a quirk that only a lawyer could love, but you are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you open-carry in your car. Licensees are simply exempt from the concealment requirement while in your car.

Chas.
Wait, do you mean that as an LTC it is legal to have my pistol on the seat beside me NOT concealed in any manner?
I never let schooling interfere with my education. Mark Twain


roadkill
Member
Posts in topic: 2
Posts: 163
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:48 pm

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#22

Post by roadkill » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:33 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:24 pm
roadkill wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:23 pm
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:09 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:20 pm
Caliber wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:12 pm
Maxwell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm
The 4 things I always have in a traffic stop are: My DL, my LTC, my auto insurance card, and a little patience and respect for the LEO.

I forgot my wallet once while carrying. As soon as I realized it I took the holster off and put everything in the console.

Like others have suggested I carry my DL & LTC (and insurance card) in the same place in my wallet. I can't pull one out without the other.
You did not have to put the gun in your console. You can have it anywhere inside the vehicle including on your person as long as it's not in plain view.
I think this gets back to the question of whether you are always carrying under the authority of your LTC, even when you can legally carry under other authority such as the MPA.
The only time you are carrying under the authority of your LTC is when carrying in that location would be illegal without an LTC. You are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you are in your car or one under your control.

Chas.
With the exception of open carry.
I realize that this is a quirk that only a lawyer could love, but you are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you open-carry in your car. Licensees are simply exempt from the concealment requirement while in your car.

Chas.
So let em get this correct. A non license holder can open carry in their car? It is my understanding that the gun has to remain concealed for the MPA to apply.

User avatar

Pawpaw
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 6459
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:16 am
Location: Hunt County

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#23

Post by Pawpaw » Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:35 pm

Maxwell wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:45 pm
Wait, do you mean that as an LTC it is legal to have my pistol on the seat beside me NOT concealed in any manner?
Nope. You jumped the shark there.

If you have an LTC, you don't have to conceal it if it's in a belt or shoulder holster.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

NRA Benefactor Life Member

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 17432
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#24

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:13 pm

roadkill wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:33 pm
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:24 pm
roadkill wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:23 pm
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:09 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:20 pm
Caliber wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 4:12 pm
Maxwell wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:03 pm
The 4 things I always have in a traffic stop are: My DL, my LTC, my auto insurance card, and a little patience and respect for the LEO.

I forgot my wallet once while carrying. As soon as I realized it I took the holster off and put everything in the console.

Like others have suggested I carry my DL & LTC (and insurance card) in the same place in my wallet. I can't pull one out without the other.
You did not have to put the gun in your console. You can have it anywhere inside the vehicle including on your person as long as it's not in plain view.
I think this gets back to the question of whether you are always carrying under the authority of your LTC, even when you can legally carry under other authority such as the MPA.
The only time you are carrying under the authority of your LTC is when carrying in that location would be illegal without an LTC. You are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you are in your car or one under your control.

Chas.
With the exception of open carry.
I realize that this is a quirk that only a lawyer could love, but you are not carrying under the authority of your LTC when you open-carry in your car. Licensees are simply exempt from the concealment requirement while in your car.

Chas.
So let em get this correct. A non license holder can open carry in their car?
No.

Chas.
Image

User avatar

Excaliber
Moderator
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 5752
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: DFW Metro

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#25

Post by Excaliber » Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:37 am

Charles,

That brings up a follow on question only a lawyer or an English major could love:

If you open carry in your car, couldn't it be argued that you are effectively carrying under your LTC because you can't legally do so without one, but you would not be carrying under LTC in the same circumstance if the gun is concealed because you can do so without an LTC?
Excaliber

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.

User avatar

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 24925
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#26

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:14 am

I have, perhaps 4 or 5 times in the last 10 years, accidentally left home without my wallet or phone. In most cases, I was leaving the house on my own, very early in the morning to get to church for a Sunday morning band rehearsal before services start, and I simply borrowed a friend’s phone to call my wife and ask her to bring my ID and phone when she comes to church. Otherwise, as soon as I discovered the issue - not long after leaving home - I turned around, went home, and got it.

For the past 3.5 years, I’ve owned a vehicle whose software automatically pairs to my phone when I start the car, and my music mix from my phone automatically begins playing on the car stereo. So it’s not likely that I’ll pull out of the driveway without it.....because I likes me music when I’m driving, and I don’t listen to radio anymore, and so “radio” isn’t selected on my sound system. Ergo, if I start the car, and I don’t hear music, then I’ve left my phone in the house, and I go get it.....which means that I automatically check my pockets for my wallet, knife, and house keys too while I’m at it.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy
My dream is to have lived my life so well that future generations of leftists will demand my name be removed from buildings.


2farnorth
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:35 pm
Location: Leonard, Tx

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#27

Post by 2farnorth » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:46 am

(Rant begin) :grumble
I can't believe the number of people that come into our store that "forgot" their wallets ! Want to write a check and have no ID! One recently, open carrying, had left his wallet/IDs at his shop. Others leave their wallets/money clips in the vehicle, which is running in the parking lot, then bring it in, 3 inches thick with hundreds of $ cash showing! Meantime other customers wanting to check out have to wait.
(rant over)

My 20 years in the military taught me that I had to have my ID any time I was outside my personal quarters. I keep my wallet thin so it's easy to carry and on me at all times. If I get stopped I don't want to have to make excuses. I want things to go as smooth as possible and not have to depend on the officer to be in a good mood.
N5PNZ

User avatar

Mel
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 5:47 pm
Location: Farmersville, TX

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#28

Post by Mel » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:55 am

2farnorth wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:46 am
(Rant begin) :grumble
I can't believe the number of people that come into our store that "forgot" their wallets !
I can't believe the number of people that leave home without their wallet! I'll soon be turning 76 years young and I can't remember ever forgetting my wallet. My car keys, pocket knife, change, wallet, comb, handkerchief, and phone all reside in the same cabinet. When I leave, I load up everything at the same time.
Mel
Airworthiness Inspector specializing in Experimental and Light-Sport Aircraft since the last Century.

User avatar

Take Down Sicko
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 796
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:01 pm
Location: Houston Tx
Contact:

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#29

Post by Take Down Sicko » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:18 pm

My wallets thin automatically. I put everything i need to carry in my pants pockets the night before. The only thing i sometimes forget is my cell phone since it sits on the table in case i need to use it during the day.

User avatar

Maxwell
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 3
Posts: 880
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 2:05 pm

Re: Carrying your license to carry

#30

Post by Maxwell » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:54 pm

Pawpaw wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:35 pm
Maxwell wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 5:45 pm
Wait, do you mean that as an LTC it is legal to have my pistol on the seat beside me NOT concealed in any manner?
Nope. You jumped the shark there.

If you have an LTC, you don't have to conceal it if it's in a belt or shoulder holster.
Well, it is in my holster on the passenger seat, does that count...? :evil2:
:leaving
I never let schooling interfere with my education. Mark Twain

Post Reply

Return to “General Texas CHL Discussion”