Being that guy..

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Humanclone
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Being that guy..

#1

Post by Humanclone » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:02 am

In stores which post a legal 30.06 sign, do any of you open carry in that store instead. Or visa versa with a 30.07 sign? Cause legally you arnt in violation of the law but may be asked to leave.

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TxRVer
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Re: Being that guy..

#2

Post by TxRVer » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:25 am

If a business posts 30.06 it seems obvious they don't want you to carry. If you OC, at the least, they will ask you to leave. I see a 30.07 sign as an indication they don't mind you carrying, but don't want to see your weapon.
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Re: Being that guy..

#3

Post by Chaparral » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:08 am

I don’t think being confrontational and aggravating people really helps the cause of encouraging the broader population to be trusting of license holders.

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Jusme
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Re: Being that guy..

#4

Post by Jusme » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:11 am

No I don't OC, in places only posted 30.06. While by the letter of the law, would make it legal, they may opt, to instead of giving verbal notice, call the police, who may not arrest, but the image created for the general public, of an armed person being escorted out, would be detrimental to the image LTC holders want the general public to have. I simply take my patronage, and money elsewhere.JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


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Re: Being that guy..

#5

Post by flechero » Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:29 am

Chaparral wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:08 am
I don’t think being confrontational and aggravating people really helps the cause of encouraging the broader population to be trusting of license holders.
:iagree: The battle of public perception is as important [at times] as the battle in the legislature.

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Re: Being that guy..

#6

Post by joe817 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:56 pm

flechero wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:29 am
Chaparral wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:08 am
I don’t think being confrontational and aggravating people really helps the cause of encouraging the broader population to be trusting of license holders.
:iagree: The battle of public perception is as important [at times] as the battle in the legislature.
Well put flechero. :iagree:
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Re: Being that guy..

#7

Post by Syntyr » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:32 pm

flechero wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:29 am
Chaparral wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:08 am
I don’t think being confrontational and aggravating people really helps the cause of encouraging the broader population to be trusting of license holders.
:iagree: The battle of public perception is as important [at times] as the battle in the legislature.
This is why I OC where I can. Especially out in the general public. I also try to acknowledge everyone and smile. I dress nice and try to generally be helpful. I put shopping carts away for people. I offer to lend a hand loading cars. I go out of my way to pick up litter. I ask people how they are doing and engage where I can.

It's a pain in the keister because I am normally an introvert. But it is important to put a good face on carrying and help people understand we are not slobbering nut jobs.

If a place posts 07 I conceal and proceed. If they post 06 I turn around and go someplace else. I wont go into Sprouts because they are posted 06 and 07. My wife goes in while I wait in the car. I would much rather go to Trader Joe's. They started out posted 06 and 07. They have finally removed to 06 signs.
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Re: Being that guy..

#8

Post by jordanmills » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:24 am

Any no guns sign means they're not getting my money.

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Re: Being that guy..

#9

Post by Flightmare » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:32 pm

jordanmills wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:24 am
Any no guns sign means they're not getting my money.
I walked right past a sign yesterday that said "No firearms allowed". I thought it was cute.
Deplorable lunatic since 2016

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: Being that guy..

#10

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:39 pm

Humanclone wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:02 am
In stores which post a legal 30.06 sign, do any of you open carry in that store instead. Or visa versa with a 30.07 sign? Cause legally you arnt in violation of the law but may be asked to leave.
Let me start by saying that I do open carry on occasion. When open carry first became law, I OC’d about half the time. But as time has passed, I have tended to CC more often than not. That’s just a personal sartorial preference, but I am no less supportive of the right of people to open carry if they want to today, than I was back when the law was being debated and passed. Let me also say that I would NEVER advise someone else to break the law - even if I might break it myself. So let that be the filter through which you read what follows.

Lots of places post 30.07, but don’t particularly mind if you carry concealed. My own church does this. They’re not bothered by you having one on you....they just don’t want to see it. And really, it’s probably not so much about whether or not they don’t want to see it, as much as it is that they don’t want to potentially offend customers/parishioners who [shock!]don’t like guns[/shock!]. Like it or not, we live in a world in which roughly half the population likes guns, and the other half does. And believe it or not - even among those that do favor private gun ownership, a faction exists that doubts that you should be able to carry one outside of the home. So if a business/church/whatever posts 30.07 only, I don’t hold it against them. I recognize what THEY recognize - that they want the largest number of people possible to feel comfortable on their premises, and that includes people of all kinds of political persuasions. WHY? Because they have a vested interest in getting as many people through those doors as possible, and a vested interest in making sure they’ll come back. Nobody besides that business or church has the right to judge what is that particular institution’s best interest, because NOBODY else besides them is going to experience the consequences of that decision making. YOU can always take your patronage elsewhere. From a practical standpoint, they have to remain where they are. You don’t.

People say that politics is the art of what’s possible, and diplomacy is the art of compromise. Diplomacy in politics is the recognition that both sides have some legitimate concerns that have to be addressed for both to accept a compromise as legitimate. Increasingly, there is no more diplomacy in politics, and all too often, those “compromises” work more in the favor of antigunners, than they work in favor of gun rights. The Overton window keeps shifting in that direction. I hate it, and you should too, but that’s the world we live in, and if you doubt it, then you’re in denial. 30.06 and 30.07 are the compromise that make it possible for us to carry firearms in public, while still respecting the private property rights of business-owners. The definitions in the code that describe a compliant sign, make it a big ugly sign for a purpose. 30.06 by itself, or when posted in tandem with 30.07, does TWO things, both of which are useful to possessors of an LTC:
  1. PRACTICALITY: It requires a business or church to CLEARLY state it’s objection to the presence of lawfully carried firearms, in such a way that people who lawfully carry them can avoid accidentally carrying into a place they are barred from entering while armed.
  2. SOCIALLY/POLITICALLY: It forces the institution in question to publicly state it’s position on the lawful carry of firearms, in such a way that people who lawfully carry firearms may decide whether or not to patronize that institution with their dollars or time.
It’s probably a given that businesses that post both signs, absolutely intend to keep all people who are licensed to carry out of their places of business. If you as an individual choose to conceal and carry past those signs, it is (questionably) your 2nd Amendment right to do so; but you ARE violating the letter of the law if you do. In that case, you can no longer call yourself “law-abiding”. At best you can then call yourself selectively law-abiding. That in and of itself does not make you a bad guy, but it does make you an outlaw.

There is a parallel thread going on over the possible passage of HR 1263 - the congressional democrats’ bill to force all semiauto rifles that are not tube-fed .22s to be NFA registered. I have, as have others, plainly stated that if the law passes, I will not comply with it. For me, it’s a step too far. It no longer falls in the definition of political compromise. So I will not comply. But, that decision is not arrived at without my recognition of the fact that, if this happens, I will become by definition an outlaw, and can no-longer truthfully call myself a “law-abiding” person. For me, that IS the moral decision, because it would be immoral to obey an unjust law.

I mention this example, not to start another discussion about HR 1263, but to bring up the notion that political disobedience is one of America’s oldest traditions. When/If the law either departs from the principles of justice, or departs from upholding our rights under the Constitution, we may have a moral duty to disobey that part of the law. But, each person has to define the extent of that duty for themselves.

For instance, if your place of employment posts both 30.06 and 30.07 signs, and the personnel policy explicitly states that employees found to be in possession of a firearm on the premises (parking lots excepted) will be summarily fired, only YOU can make the moral decision to comply with the signs or to defy them and carry anyway. Why are YOU the only one who can define what your duty is in that particular situation? It’s because YOU are the only one who will suffer a consequence if caught. NOBODY has a legitimate right to judge your decision if its possible consequences put the financial security of your family at risk. They’re not in your shoes.

But the parameters change when we’re talking about a business or church that posts both signs—as opposed to your place of employment. I can’t recall a single time I’ve deliberatly carried past a 30.06 sign; but I have carried into a posted business and didn’t discover it was posted until I was well inside the store—because the sign was posted high on a back wall or something, where it wasn’t visible from either outside or immediately inside the entrance. Upon discovering the sign, I left. And I haven’t gone back, and won’t going forward either.

That’s my personal set of parameters: no patronage of institutions that post 30.06, while letting 30.07 slide. My exception to that would be if ALL businesses around me were posted 30.06, and the choice was to either patronize a local business, or to drive 50 miles to find one that wasn’t posted. In that case, I would probably unlawfully carry past the 30.06 signs. But I can only say “probably”, because I’m not yet in that situation. I can only report my inclination; but inclinations often tend to have a habit of being modified under the exigencies of reality.

OTH, I would never choose to live/work in an area where there simply weren’t any alternatives. I love Texas. I am grateful to Texas for taking me in as a refugee from California. But if Texas ever became California - which could easily happen - then Oklahoma would start looking pretty good. And don’t laugh. California USED to be a lot more like Texas, than Texas is today. California elected Ronaldus Maximus governor—TWICE. Commie bastards ruined it for everyone. Texas is very close to flipping blue, and people who don’t see that, are fiddling while Rome burns. And what will happen when the dems get a majority? Keep an eye out for the dreaded Gerrymander, which will effectively nullify the GOP in Texas politics....which is EXACTLY what happened in California. In 1966, Californians went for Reagan 57.55% to Pat Brown’s 42.27%. More importantly, Reagan won in 55 of California’s 58 counties - the exceptions being Alameda, Plumas, and San Francisco counties. Today, a mere 24.5% of California’s voters identify as republicans.

I mention all of this, because you can look forward to some negatives here in Texas in the not too distant future - UNLESS the Texas GOP pulls its head out of its nether regions and starts to REALLY fight back. Among those negatives: more and more stores posted 3.0.06, and legislation diluting or eliminating the signage compliance requirements. When that happens, a whole lot of us are going to have to decide how to spend our money, and where to go to church.
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OneGun
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Re: Being that guy..

#11

Post by OneGun » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:55 pm

Chaparral wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:08 am
I don’t think being confrontational and aggravating people really helps the cause of encouraging the broader population to be trusting of license holders.
:iagree: The convenience store near my house only has 30.06 sign posted. I don't generally OC and I don't shop at that store unless I have to because of other circumstances. When I was last in the store, I told the clerk about the incorrect signage. The guy just said, not my issue, I just work here. I'm not the owner. I tried. I just avoid the store as much as possible.
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Bill Anderson
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Re: Being that guy..

#12

Post by Bill Anderson » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:30 pm

As far as I'm concerned, 30.06 signs, 30.07 signs, and gun buster signs all say the same thing.

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Lena
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Re: Being that guy..

#13

Post by Lena » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:12 pm

Sometime back I attended a church that posted 06-07 a group of members all signed a letter to the pastor why they all were leaving some had been there quite awhile and had donated a lot to the funds, the letter was just 1 thing the posting and his anti 2nd views and he was asked for it to be posted in the church paper which he refused to do there, copies were placed on vehicles across the street in a public lot only not on church property, the church lost as of now over 25 families close to 50+ members we think from this with more showing up weekly at another location welcoming them 07 only.
Stay Safe

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Maxwell
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Re: Being that guy..

#14

Post by Maxwell » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:25 pm

Humanclone wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:02 am
In stores which post a legal 30.06 sign, do any of you open carry in that store instead. Or visa versa with a 30.07 sign? Cause legally you arnt in violation of the law but may be asked to leave.
I agree with most on here. If a location is posted 30.07 I untuck or cover my firearm is some fashion. If a location is marked 30.06 I walk away and take my business elsewhere. Carrying uncovered in a 30.06 ONLY posted location is just a childish form of he said/she said and does none of us or our cause any good.
I never let schooling interfere with my education. Mark Twain


flechero
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Re: Being that guy..

#15

Post by flechero » Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:49 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:39 pm
Let me start by saying that I do open carry on occasion. When open carry first became law, I OC’d about half the time. But as time has passed, I have tended to CC more often than not. That’s just a personal sartorial preference, but I am no less supportive of the right of people to open carry if they want to today, than I was back when the law was being debated and passed. Let me also say that I would NEVER advise someone else to break the law - even if I might break it myself. So let that be the filter through which you read what follows.

Lots of places post 30.07, but don’t particularly mind if you carry concealed. My own church does this. They’re not bothered by you having one on you....they just don’t want to see it. And really, it’s probably not so much about whether or not they don’t want to see it, as much as it is that they don’t want to potentially offend customers/parishioners who [shock!]don’t like guns[/shock!]. Like it or not, we live in a world in which roughly half the population likes guns, and the other half does. And believe it or not - even among those that do favor private gun ownership, a faction exists that doubts that you should be able to carry one outside of the home. So if a business/church/whatever posts 30.07 only, I don’t hold it against them. I recognize what THEY recognize - that they want the largest number of people possible to feel comfortable on their premises, and that includes people of all kinds of political persuasions. WHY? Because they have a vested interest in getting as many people through those doors as possible, and a vested interest in making sure they’ll come back. Nobody besides that business or church has the right to judge what is that particular institution’s best interest, because NOBODY else besides them is going to experience the consequences of that decision making. YOU can always take your patronage elsewhere. From a practical standpoint, they have to remain where they are. You don’t.

People say that politics is the art of what’s possible, and diplomacy is the art of compromise. Diplomacy in politics is the recognition that both sides have some legitimate concerns that have to be addressed for both to accept a compromise as legitimate. Increasingly, there is no more diplomacy in politics, and all too often, those “compromises” work more in the favor of antigunners, than they work in favor of gun rights. The Overton window keeps shifting in that direction. I hate it, and you should too, but that’s the world we live in, and if you doubt it, then you’re in denial. 30.06 and 30.07 are the compromise that make it possible for us to carry firearms in public, while still respecting the private property rights of business-owners. The definitions in the code that describe a compliant sign, make it a big ugly sign for a purpose. 30.06 by itself, or when posted in tandem with 30.07, does TWO things, both of which are useful to possessors of an LTC:
  1. PRACTICALITY: It requires a business or church to CLEARLY state it’s objection to the presence of lawfully carried firearms, in such a way that people who lawfully carry them can avoid accidentally carrying into a place they are barred from entering while armed.
  2. SOCIALLY/POLITICALLY: It forces the institution in question to publicly state it’s position on the lawful carry of firearms, in such a way that people who lawfully carry firearms may decide whether or not to patronize that institution with their dollars or time.
It’s probably a given that businesses that post both signs, absolutely intend to keep all people who are licensed to carry out of their places of business. If you as an individual choose to conceal and carry past those signs, it is (questionably) your 2nd Amendment right to do so; but you ARE violating the letter of the law if you do. In that case, you can no longer call yourself “law-abiding”. At best you can then call yourself selectively law-abiding. That in and of itself does not make you a bad guy, but it does make you an outlaw.

There is a parallel thread going on over the possible passage of HR 1263 - the congressional democrats’ bill to force all semiauto rifles that are not tube-fed .22s to be NFA registered. I have, as have others, plainly stated that if the law passes, I will not comply with it. For me, it’s a step too far. It no longer falls in the definition of political compromise. So I will not comply. But, that decision is not arrived at without my recognition of the fact that, if this happens, I will become by definition an outlaw, and can no-longer truthfully call myself a “law-abiding” person. For me, that IS the moral decision, because it would be immoral to obey an unjust law.

I mention this example, not to start another discussion about HR 1263, but to bring up the notion that political disobedience is one of America’s oldest traditions. When/If the law either departs from the principles of justice, or departs from upholding our rights under the Constitution, we may have a moral duty to disobey that part of the law. But, each person has to define the extent of that duty for themselves.

For instance, if your place of employment posts both 30.06 and 30.07 signs, and the personnel policy explicitly states that employees found to be in possession of a firearm on the premises (parking lots excepted) will be summarily fired, only YOU can make the moral decision to comply with the signs or to defy them and carry anyway. Why are YOU the only one who can define what your duty is in that particular situation? It’s because YOU are the only one who will suffer a consequence if caught. NOBODY has a legitimate right to judge your decision if its possible consequences put the financial security of your family at risk. They’re not in your shoes.

But the parameters change when we’re talking about a business or church that posts both signs—as opposed to your place of employment. I can’t recall a single time I’ve deliberatly carried past a 30.06 sign; but I have carried into a posted business and didn’t discover it was posted until I was well inside the store—because the sign was posted high on a back wall or something, where it wasn’t visible from either outside or immediately inside the entrance. Upon discovering the sign, I left. And I haven’t gone back, and won’t going forward either.

That’s my personal set of parameters: no patronage of institutions that post 30.06, while letting 30.07 slide. My exception to that would be if ALL businesses around me were posted 30.06, and the choice was to either patronize a local business, or to drive 50 miles to find one that wasn’t posted. In that case, I would probably unlawfully carry past the 30.06 signs. But I can only say “probably”, because I’m not yet in that situation. I can only report my inclination; but inclinations often tend to have a habit of being modified under the exigencies of reality.

OTH, I would never choose to live/work in an area where there simply weren’t any alternatives. I love Texas. I am grateful to Texas for taking me in as a refugee from California. But if Texas ever became California - which could easily happen - then Oklahoma would start looking pretty good. And don’t laugh. California USED to be a lot more like Texas, than Texas is today. California elected Ronaldus Maximus governor—TWICE. Commie bastards ruined it for everyone. Texas is very close to flipping blue, and people who don’t see that, are fiddling while Rome burns. And what will happen when the dems get a majority? Keep an eye out for the dreaded Gerrymander, which will effectively nullify the GOP in Texas politics....which is EXACTLY what happened in California. In 1966, Californians went for Reagan 57.55% to Pat Brown’s 42.27%. More importantly, Reagan won in 55 of California’s 58 counties - the exceptions being Alameda, Plumas, and San Francisco counties. Today, a mere 24.5% of California’s voters identify as republicans.

I mention all of this, because you can look forward to some negatives here in Texas in the not too distant future - UNLESS the Texas GOP pulls its head out of its nether regions and starts to REALLY fight back. Among those negatives: more and more stores posted 3.0.06, and legislation diluting or eliminating the signage compliance requirements. When that happens, a whole lot of us are going to have to decide how to spend our money, and where to go to church.
Be honest, TAM... does Charles pay you by the word??? :lol:

(just fooling around, I always enjoy reading well thought out posts!)

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