CC question towards mall policy?

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gabeZherrera
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CC question towards mall policy?

#1

Post by gabeZherrera » Tue May 21, 2019 2:44 pm

I have been wondering if malls can ban guns from being conceal carried? I live in Austin and the only malls really around are Lakeline, The Domain, Roundrock outlet mall and san marcos outlet mall. I know Lakeline is privately owned and on the door it just says no weapons or firearms of any kind. But there is no 30.06 or 30.07 posted as far as I know. Would they have to verbally tell me that CC is not permitted and ask me to leave? Also same with The Domain, owned by Simon properties. Privately owned but the entire place is like an outlet mall. Do stores need to individually post 30.06 or 30.07 signs, or does the whole private property ‘no firearms’ cover everything?


Soccerdad1995
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#2

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Tue May 21, 2019 3:00 pm

If they choose not to post signs that comply with the requirements of 30.06 and / or 30.07, then any other signage is meaningless to an LTC holder. They could also choose to notify folks orally, or to hand out cards to everyone with the required verbiage. There is also a slight difference between 30.07 and 30.06 regarding sign placement. 30.07 explicitly requires signs to be posted at all entrances. 30.06 requires that signs are "conspicuously" posted. So not a huge distinction. That said, 30.07 signs are a bit pointless, IMHO, since by definition management could easily identify the folks open carrying and could just have a polite conversation with them individually where they give notice.

Also, I believe that 30.06 is only valid for buildings and not open spaces like parking lots, sidewalks, etc. So if one of these is an open air mall, that would come into play. I know that at the San Marcos outlet malls, some stores choose to post their entrances and others choose not to do so.

Let me know if that did not address your questions.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


ralewis
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#3

Post by ralewis » Tue May 21, 2019 3:32 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:00 pm
If they choose not to post signs that comply with the requirements of 30.06 and / or 30.07, then any other signage is meaningless to an LTC holder. They could also choose to notify folks orally, or to hand out cards to everyone with the required verbiage. There is also a slight difference between 30.07 and 30.06 regarding sign placement. 30.07 explicitly requires signs to be posted at all entrances. 30.06 requires that signs are "conspicuously" posted. So not a huge distinction. That said, 30.07 signs are a bit pointless, IMHO, since by definition management could easily identify the folks open carrying and could just have a polite conversation with them individually where they give notice.

Also, I believe that 30.06 is only valid for buildings and not open spaces like parking lots, sidewalks, etc. So if one of these is an open air mall, that would come into play. I know that at the San Marcos outlet malls, some stores choose to post their entrances and others choose not to do so.

Let me know if that did not address your questions.
I believe 30.06 applies to property and parking lots can be posted with legally enforceable signs.

I live i the same area in North Austin, and I've not seen many postings at malls -- specifically the Domain shoppes or Lakeline Mall. A few individual stores her and there but none in Lakeline Mall. Maybe 1 or 2 in the Domain, but there really aren't that many. Whole Foods at the Domain is posted for sure.


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gabeZherrera
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#4

Post by gabeZherrera » Tue May 21, 2019 4:08 pm

ralewis wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:32 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:00 pm
If they choose not to post signs that comply with the requirements of 30.06 and / or 30.07, then any other signage is meaningless to an LTC holder. They could also choose to notify folks orally, or to hand out cards to everyone with the required verbiage. There is also a slight difference between 30.07 and 30.06 regarding sign placement. 30.07 explicitly requires signs to be posted at all entrances. 30.06 requires that signs are "conspicuously" posted. So not a huge distinction. That said, 30.07 signs are a bit pointless, IMHO, since by definition management could easily identify the folks open carrying and could just have a polite conversation with them individually where they give notice.

Also, I believe that 30.06 is only valid for buildings and not open spaces like parking lots, sidewalks, etc. So if one of these is an open air mall, that would come into play. I know that at the San Marcos outlet malls, some stores choose to post their entrances and others choose not to do so.

Let me know if that did not address your questions.
I believe 30.06 applies to property and parking lots can be posted with legally enforceable signs.

I live i the same area in North Austin, and I've not seen many postings at malls -- specifically the Domain shoppes or Lakeline Mall. A few individual stores her and there but none in Lakeline Mall. Maybe 1 or 2 in the Domain, but there really aren't that many. Whole Foods at the Domain is posted for sure.

Have you seen any 30.06 or 30.07 signs at lakeline personally? I believe the cinema entrance have them and then the place inside that sells alcohol has one too. But the 30.06 and 30.07 if posted at the doors of the mall that in which people enter the cinema. Does it apply to the entire building or that specific area?


jerry_r60
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#5

Post by jerry_r60 » Wed May 22, 2019 10:11 am

gabeZherrera wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 2:44 pm
Do stores need to individually post 30.06 or 30.07 signs, or does the whole private property ‘no firearms’ cover everything?
To cover this part of your question. The whole mall can be posted if done correctly. That would cover entry into the building and therefore any stores within the building.

If they building didn't post then individual stores within it could post and that would apply to those individual stores only.


Soccerdad1995
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#6

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Wed May 22, 2019 11:21 am

jerry_r60 wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 10:11 am
gabeZherrera wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 2:44 pm
Do stores need to individually post 30.06 or 30.07 signs, or does the whole private property ‘no firearms’ cover everything?
To cover this part of your question. The whole mall can be posted if done correctly. That would cover entry into the building and therefore any stores within the building.

If they building didn't post then individual stores within it could post and that would apply to those individual stores only.
This is the case at the Katy Mills mall. No 30.06 signs at entrances to the mall (at least the ones I use, I didn't do an exhaustive search of every possible way to enter the mall). But within the mall, certain stores do post.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


Mike S
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#7

Post by Mike S » Wed May 22, 2019 2:06 pm

gabeZherrera wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 4:08 pm
ralewis wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:32 pm
Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 3:00 pm
If they choose not to post signs that comply with the requirements of 30.06 and / or 30.07, then any other signage is meaningless to an LTC holder. They could also choose to notify folks orally, or to hand out cards to everyone with the required verbiage. There is also a slight difference between 30.07 and 30.06 regarding sign placement. 30.07 explicitly requires signs to be posted at all entrances. 30.06 requires that signs are "conspicuously" posted. So not a huge distinction. That said, 30.07 signs are a bit pointless, IMHO, since by definition management could easily identify the folks open carrying and could just have a polite conversation with them individually where they give notice.

Also, I believe that 30.06 is only valid for buildings and not open spaces like parking lots, sidewalks, etc. So if one of these is an open air mall, that would come into play. I know that at the San Marcos outlet malls, some stores choose to post their entrances and others choose not to do so.

Let me know if that did not address your questions.
I believe 30.06 applies to property and parking lots can be posted with legally enforceable signs.

I live i the same area in North Austin, and I've not seen many postings at malls -- specifically the Domain shoppes or Lakeline Mall. A few individual stores her and there but none in Lakeline Mall. Maybe 1 or 2 in the Domain, but there really aren't that many. Whole Foods at the Domain is posted for sure.

Have you seen any 30.06 or 30.07 signs at lakeline personally? I believe the cinema entrance have them and then the place inside that sells alcohol has one too. But the 30.06 and 30.07 if posted at the doors of the mall that in which people enter the cinema. Does it apply to the entire building or that specific area?
It's been awhile since I've been there, but if I recall correctly the cinema was posted, but not the mall entrances. That's a large factor in why, when we do go to the movies, we go elsewhere. The new "Moviehouse & Eatery" off of Southwest Parkway & William Cannon has a large sign saying they welcome people to lawfully carry concealed (even though they are posted 30.07, I thought it a nice touch).


Topic author
gabeZherrera
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#8

Post by gabeZherrera » Wed May 22, 2019 2:26 pm

As far as open air malls, such as the domain or outlets. The domain has multiple ways to enter, let alone there are 3 parts to the domain. None of which I have seen any 30.06/30.07 signs, only 51% and such for clubs and bars. So legally I can conceal carry? Or do I follow the ‘no firearms/weapon rules’ posted on the simon property website?


surprise_i'm_armed
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#9

Post by surprise_i'm_armed » Wed May 22, 2019 2:55 pm

OP:

A resource you may wish to become familiar with is www.texas3006.com. It's run by a member of this forum.

The entries are user-supplied and contain data about 30.06 AND 30.07 postings throughout the state of Texas.

Once you are a registered user (it's free), you can use the search function to sort as you see fit.

SIA
If I walked across the Potomac River today,
tomorrow's headline would read "LBJ can't swim!".

Lyndon B. Johnson, 1908-1973.

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ELB
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#10

Post by ELB » Wed May 22, 2019 3:01 pm

gabeZherrera wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 2:26 pm
As far as open air malls, such as the domain or outlets. The domain has multiple ways to enter, let alone there are 3 parts to the domain. None of which I have seen any 30.06/30.07 signs, only 51% and such for clubs and bars. So legally I can conceal carry? Or do I follow the ‘no firearms/weapon rules’ posted on the simon property website?
Given your description, yes you can conceal carry.

A private property or business establishment that doesn't want you to trespass on their property with a handgun carried under the authority of a license to carry has to use one of the statutorily prescribed methods to notify you of this. That means the 30.06 sign to deny concealed carry, the 30.07 sign to deny open carry, a person with apparent authority of the owner tells you to your face you can't carry, or they hand you a card with the statutorily prescribed verbiage on it.

A generic gunbuster sign or a sign that says "no firearms," "no guns" or the like has no legal meaning to you when you are carrying under the authority of your LTC. If the sign doesn't meet the requirements of the law, it doesn't apply to you.

If there are no 30.06/30.07 signs, then as others have pointed out if you open carry the mall management or security may notice and tell you to your face you can't do that. Then you must leave. If you conceal carry then unlikely anyone will notice and bother you about it.

Regardless of whether the establishment's owners would let you carry, you can't legally carry in a place for which 51% of it revenue is derived from drinks served on premise. The establishment is supposed to post 51% signs prescribed by state law. This is separate from the trespassing laws.
USAF 1982-2005
____________
“The only thing more enjoyable than seeing your opponent lose an election they rigged is seeing them lose an investigation they rigged.” Author unknown but dead on the mark.


Topic author
gabeZherrera
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#11

Post by gabeZherrera » Wed May 22, 2019 3:14 pm

Thank you everyone! Just downloaded the Texas 3006 app. Very mucha ppreciated.


surprise_i'm_armed
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Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#12

Post by surprise_i'm_armed » Wed May 22, 2019 3:21 pm

You are welcome. Knowledge is power my friend.

Welcome to the forum by the way. What gun(s) do you own? What's your EDC (everyday carry)?

SIA
If I walked across the Potomac River today,
tomorrow's headline would read "LBJ can't swim!".

Lyndon B. Johnson, 1908-1973.


Topic author
gabeZherrera
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Posts in topic: 5
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Joined: Thu May 16, 2019 5:12 pm

Re: CC question towards mall policy?

#13

Post by gabeZherrera » Wed May 22, 2019 4:02 pm

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 3:21 pm
You are welcome. Knowledge is power my friend.

Welcome to the forum by the way. What gun(s) do you own? What's your EDC (everyday carry)?

SIA
Just a sig p320 compact 😁 love it very much. Also have a custom AR pistol built, love that one to death as well haha. I am looking at a CZ P-01 or CZ P-01 omega, for my next handgun purchase though and carry. I would love to master a DA/SA and be efficient with it.

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