FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

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C-dub
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#31

Post by C-dub » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:00 pm

I have yet to receive a reply from the FWPD.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
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ScottDLS
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#32

Post by ScottDLS » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:16 pm

C-dub wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:00 pm
I have yet to receive a reply from the FWPD.
Shocking. :shock:
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#33

Post by imkopaka » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:44 am

Noggin wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:03 pm
I have lost count of the number of times I have open carried in SPECS, without at single comment from anyone. The only signs they have relate to Unlicensed Carry, therefore I see no reason to change my behaviour. I think if I were challenged by LEO I would politely inform him that I will be contacting my prepaid legal service and shall be looking forward to seeing him in court.
Same on almost all counts. I OC in Specs as well, would say the same about my pre-paid legal service, and would not change my behavior, but I have been challenged once.

An employee (who I assume was new) confronted me and told me "I don't think you're allowed to do that here," to which I politely responded "yes I am." She got irritated so I asked her to call her manager and I continued shopping. I overheard the manager lecturing her from the next aisle about how they had to take a TABC test and this situation was one of the things on that test and I was absolutely allowed to carry there. :rules: :rolll
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Noggin
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#34

Post by Noggin » Sun Aug 18, 2019 10:55 am

imkopaka wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:44 am
Noggin wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:03 pm
I have lost count of the number of times I have open carried in SPECS, without at single comment from anyone. The only signs they have relate to Unlicensed Carry, therefore I see no reason to change my behaviour. I think if I were challenged by LEO I would politely inform him that I will be contacting my prepaid legal service and shall be looking forward to seeing him in court.
Same on almost all counts. I OC in Specs as well, would say the same about my pre-paid legal service, and would not change my behavior, but I have been challenged once.

An employee (who I assume was new) confronted me and told me "I don't think you're allowed to do that here," to which I politely responded "yes I am." She got irritated so I asked her to call her manager and I continued shopping. I overheard the manager lecturing her from the next aisle about how they had to take a TABC test and this situation was one of the things on that test and I was absolutely allowed to carry there. :rules: :rolll
I was there again yesterday, as usual no comments or stares, "just do you want a bag for those also and have a good one".
"I command ye therefore, upon the peril of your lives, to depart immediately out of this place." - Oliver Cromwell 1653 :smilelol5:


Soccerdad1995
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#35

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:43 am

RicoTX wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:23 pm
If ignorance of the law is not an excuse for a citizen, it should not be an excuse for an officer either.
I would recommend that LEO training on laws should start with the fact that all actions are legal unless there is a law that prohibits that action. So if an LEO sees something they believe to be illegal, but they are not certain of it, they should ask for assistance and / or do some additional research before making any arrests or issuing any citations.

I'm also aware of the idea that ignorance of the law IS an excuse for a LEO, which seems completely backward and dangerous to me, but it is what it is. But can a LEO and their agency really claim ignorance if you can show documented proof that they have been informed of the specific law in question before they made an improper arrest? It seems like that would be more a case of intentional disregard for the law as opposed to ignorance of it.
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#36

Post by E.Marquez » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:07 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:43 am
But can a LEO and their agency really claim ignorance if you can show documented proof that they have been informed of the specific law in question before they made an improper arrest? It seems like that would be more a case of intentional disregard for the law as opposed to ignorance of it.
Hmm registered and certified letter to the chief, mayor, perhaps even the city counsel who had hiring authority of the chief ...detailing the issue and the facts as they support the case against their position. With a closing paragraph that it is your intent to monitor arrests made by that depart for unlawful carry of a firearm..and that as appropriate to the charge, you intend to make this proof of notification to you, available to defense attorneys, both criminal and for any civil ligation that may come from an ligation of false arrest.

Oh and
Have a nice day
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#37

Post by crazy2medic » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:34 am

Every LEO I knew had the blue book with all of Texas's laws in it, I won several "discussion" by telling them go get your little blue book, typically they'd fold at that point!
In one discussion we were arguing the newly passed MPA, the officer was telling me the city attorney told them they could arrest somebody for having a pistol in their car if they didn't have a CHL, after discussing this for several minutes, told the officer go get your little blue book, he did and I showed him under the MPA that having a pistol in your vehicle was perfectly legal so long as it is not readily visible from outside! He just looked at me and said Ok!
Last edited by crazy2medic on Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#38

Post by Grayling813 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:45 am

crazy2medic wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:34 am
Every LEO I knew had the blue book with all of Texas's laws in it, I won several "discussion" by telling them go get your little blue book, typically they'd fold at that point!
In one discussion we were arguing the newly passed MPA, the officer was telling me the city attorney told them they could arrest somebody for having a pistol in their car if they didn't have a CHL, after discussing this for several minutes, told the officer go get your little blue book, he did and I showed him under the MPA that having a,pistol in your vehicle was perfectly legal so long as it is no readily visible from outside! He just looked at me and said Ok!
Where would a civilian go to purchase this little blue book? Sounds like a handy reference to have available.
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E.Marquez
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#39

Post by E.Marquez » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:52 am

Grayling813 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:45 am
crazy2medic wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:34 am
Every LEO I knew had the blue book with all of Texas's laws in it, I won several "discussion" by telling them go get your little blue book, typically they'd fold at that point!
In one discussion we were arguing the newly passed MPA, the officer was telling me the city attorney told them they could arrest somebody for having a pistol in their car if they didn't have a CHL, after discussing this for several minutes, told the officer go get your little blue book, he did and I showed him under the MPA that having a,pistol in your vehicle was perfectly legal so long as it is no readily visible from outside! He just looked at me and said Ok!
Where would a civilian go to purchase this little blue book? Sounds like a handy reference to have available.
Links removed as I posted the WRONG blue and green book, there were not the ones being referenced above.. My apologies for the misleading post
Last edited by E.Marquez on Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#40

Post by crazy2medic » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:56 am

Grayling813 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:45 am
crazy2medic wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:34 am
Every LEO I knew had the blue book with all of Texas's laws in it, I won several "discussion" by telling them go get your little blue book, typically they'd fold at that point!
In one discussion we were arguing the newly passed MPA, the officer was telling me the city attorney told them they could arrest somebody for having a pistol in their car if they didn't have a CHL, after discussing this for several minutes, told the officer go get your little blue book, he did and I showed him under the MPA that having a,pistol in your vehicle was perfectly legal so long as it is no readily visible from outside! He just looked at me and said Ok!
Where would a civilian go to purchase this little blue book? Sounds like a handy reference to have available.
Should be able to get one at any police supply store, order one drom Galls, any place that cater to law enforcement, tying to remember the name on the book, something like uniform Criminal code or similar to that! Somebody else here may can help!
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If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#41

Post by crazy2medic » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:57 am

E.Marquez wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:52 am
Grayling813 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:45 am
crazy2medic wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:34 am
Every LEO I knew had the blue book with all of Texas's laws in it, I won several "discussion" by telling them go get your little blue book, typically they'd fold at that point!
In one discussion we were arguing the newly passed MPA, the officer was telling me the city attorney told them they could arrest somebody for having a pistol in their car if they didn't have a CHL, after discussing this for several minutes, told the officer go get your little blue book, he did and I showed him under the MPA that having a,pistol in your vehicle was perfectly legal so long as it is no readily visible from outside! He just looked at me and said Ok!
Where would a civilian go to purchase this little blue book? Sounds like a handy reference to have available.
The Bluebook: A Uniform System of Citation, 20th Edition
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=bluebook+20t ... od5le3g8_b
https://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/bluebook-legal-citation

The Greenbook Texas Rules of Form 14th Ed. (2018)


https://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/bluebook ... /greenbook
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Don T
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#42

Post by Don T » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:37 pm

The posted links to those "blue books" and "green books" will likely not be what you want. These are books containing citation formats for lawyers and law students to use when citing cases and statutes in legal memoranda.

They do not contain copies of the Texas Penal Code or other statutes and won't be helpful references when looking for applicable laws.

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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#43

Post by E.Marquez » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:16 am

Don T wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:37 pm
The posted links to those "blue books" and "green books" will likely not be what you want. These are books containing citation formats for lawyers and law students to use when citing cases and statutes in legal memoranda.

They do not contain copies of the Texas Penal Code or other statutes and won't be helpful references when looking for applicable laws.
Thanks I knew that was too easy....

So do you have a link to the Texas specific "Penal Code or other statutes" Blue book?
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#44

Post by E.Marquez » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:28 am

https://www.blue360media.com/texas-traffic-laws.html

Found it (I think)

And a combined version with Texas Criminal and Traffic Law Manual

https://www.blue360media.com/categories ... al-13.html
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Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

#45

Post by bubba84 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:48 am

The second link is the one you want. It has the penal code, traffic code, code of criminal procedures, etc.

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