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FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:42 pm
by oohrah
This was a pretty good apparently non-baised article about red flag laws and alerting police about MWAG

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2 ... s-shooting

However, then I read this "But if someone's in a liquor store with a handgun on his hip, that is illegal, Daniels said. “A liquor store is a prohibited place for a license to carry holder,” he said."

This is of course absolutely false. A liquor store must post the TABC Blue sign for unlicensed possession, but the owner can decide whether to post 30.06/30.07 or not. The Sgt. may be confusing the 51% Red sign. However, it is disturbing that he does not know the law.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:59 pm
by C-dub
I was going to post this to their FB page, but decided to not do so in such a public way. I e-mailed their training department.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:00 pm
by Jago668
oohrah wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:42 pm
This was a pretty good apparently non-baised article about red flag laws and alerting police about MWAG

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/crime/2 ... s-shooting

However, then I read this "But if someone's in a liquor store with a handgun on his hip, that is illegal, Daniels said. “A liquor store is a prohibited place for a license to carry holder,” he said."

This is of course absolutely false. A liquor store must post the TABC Blue sign for unlicensed possession, but the owner can decide whether to post 30.06/30.07 or not. The Sgt. may be confusing the 51% Red sign. However, it is disturbing that he does not know the law.
Most police only have a vague knowledge of the law. Part of this is that they have to cover such a broad section of law. So there is no way for them to have a good grasp of all of them. I agree it is troubling since they are the ones that arrest people for violating laws. Short of hiring criminal law attorneys for police I don't know how to get around it.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:13 pm
by Lynyrd
I understand that most LEO's don't know ALL the law. They are not lawyers, or judges. But dang it! The legality of handguns should be law enforcement training 101.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:32 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
Before being hauled to the jail house, my thought is that a supervisor would intervene. Hopefully the supervisor is more in tune with the laws.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:17 pm
by jb2012
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:32 pm
Before being hauled to the jail house, my thought is that a supervisor would intervene. Hopefully the supervisor is more in tune with the laws.
I may be completely wrong here, but isn’t a Sergeant a supervisor?

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:33 pm
by 03Lightningrocks
jb2012 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:17 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 5:32 pm
Before being hauled to the jail house, my thought is that a supervisor would intervene. Hopefully the supervisor is more in tune with the laws.
I may be completely wrong here, but isn’t a Sergeant a supervisor?
I honestly don't know Maybe some sergeants are and some are not? I am not even positive about them checking with a supervisor before hauling you to jail. Surely there is some kind of check in place to help prevent false arrests. Maybe one of the retired or current officers can tell us.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:35 pm
by howdy
We had a Constable in uniform for security at our Church that was in the process of arresting a member for having a concealed handgun. (No signs posted) Another Church member saw the gun when it was accidentally exposed. This was before open carry. The Constable called an assistant DA who confirmed her belief that church carry was illegal. A minister convinced her to not arrest him but not before she made him take the gun to his car and tell him how lucky he was not gong to jail. I politely told her that she nor the DA knew the law and to go do some quick research. I helped her with the statute and the section (i). She still refused to accept it and she was fired that day. Hopefully the new wording of that law will help in the future.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:32 pm
by Mel
jb2012 wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:17 pm

I may be completely wrong here, but isn’t a Sergeant a supervisor?
Even a supervisor has a supervisor. One of my favorite coments when confronted with "I AM a supervisor!" is: "Do you OWN the company? If not, you have a boss. Let me speak to your boss!"

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:12 pm
by oohrah
C-dub wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:59 pm
I was going to post this to their FB page, but decided to not do so in such a public way. I e-mailed their training department.
I agree this was a good call. But the Sgt did make a public statement. I also emailed the reporter about the factual error. She emailed back that she would contact the officer.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:13 pm
by LDP
oohrah wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:12 pm
But the Sgt did make a public statement. I also emailed the reporter about the factual error. She emailed back that she would contact the officer.
Thank you for contacting the reporter. (who might not care at all to correct misinformation)
Have you tried contacting the officer's supervisor to suggest more law training, especially Texas Penal Code 46?

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 12:31 pm
by Grayling813
Might be useful to have the Texas Penal Code app on your smartphone. The TABC app is also recommended. In addition to those I have a copy of the Penal Code downloaded onto my Dropbox so I can pull it up anywhere I'm connected.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:30 pm
by rotor
Perhaps you can refer him to this...

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:33 pm
by WildBill
rotor wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:30 pm
Perhaps you can refer him to this...
:iagree: This is a great reference.

Re: FWPD Sgt Doesn't know LTC law

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:23 pm
by puma guy
howdy wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:35 pm
We had a Constable in uniform for security at our Church that was in the process of arresting a member for having a concealed handgun. (No signs posted) Another Church member saw the gun when it was accidentally exposed. This was before open carry. The Constable called an assistant DA who confirmed her belief that church carry was illegal. A minister convinced her to not arrest him but not before she made him take the gun to his car and tell him how lucky he was not gong to jail. I politely told her that she nor the DA knew the law and to go do some quick research. I helped her with the statute and the section (i). She still refused to accept it and she was fired that day. Hopefully the new wording of that law will help in the future.
:thumbs2: