"KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

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Paladin
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"KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#1

Post by Paladin » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:14 am

"KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER" by Gabe Suarez

This is a short book, but has very blunt facts and advice for stopping an active shooter by an author who has done it for real.

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WTR
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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#2

Post by WTR » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:33 am

Paladin wrote:"KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER" by Gabe Suarez

This is a short book, but has very blunt facts and advice for stopping an active shooter by an author who has done it for real.

3rd party review
Not someone I trust to follow or take advice from.


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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#3

Post by flechero » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:53 am

WTR wrote:Not someone I trust to follow or take advice from.
Might be helpful to add some color to that statement.

While I would agree on his advice for pistol choice- but his disdain for the 1911 :shock: doesn't change the lane of action, assuming one has a serviceable weapon and the mindset/skill set to employ it. :fire

So what's your rub? (I'm truly curious because at the surface I was interested in the book based on title and review.)


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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#4

Post by WTR » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:03 pm

flechero wrote:
WTR wrote:Not someone I trust to follow or take advice from.
Might be helpful to add some color to that statement.

While I would agree on his advice for pistol choice- but his disdain for the 1911 :shock: doesn't change the lane of action, assuming one has a serviceable weapon and the mindset/skill set to employ it. :fire

So what's your rub? (I'm truly curious because at the surface I was interested in the book based on title and review.)
I suggest Goggleing him. He was convicted of workers compensation fraud in 2001 I believe. He is his own best supporter. He may have some valid points. However , I don't trust what he says.


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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#5

Post by flechero » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:31 pm

WTR wrote:
I suggest Goggleing him. He was convicted of workers compensation fraud in 2001 I believe.
Ahh... I found it. Yep, he was on a workers comp leave from the PD and was doing some firearms training/classes and the paychecks went to his wife. (They plead guilty and payed all the income back.)

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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#6

Post by ELB » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:40 pm

flechero wrote:
WTR wrote:
I suggest Goggleing him. He was convicted of workers compensation fraud in 2001 I believe.
Ahh... I found it. Yep, he was on a workers comp leave from the PD and was doing some firearms training/classes and the paychecks went to his wife. (They plead guilty and payed all the income back.)
Gabe Suarez has written about this and his side of the story is out there as well. Worth googling 'til you find it. Short version as I remember it: He asked for permission to teach when he was off for a back injury, received it, then was charged with WC fraud. Had a choice of fighting it in court and going bankrupt paying for his lawyer, or pleading down to misdemeanor charges, paying restitution, and being flat broke as well as losing his job as a cop. He went for option 2.

He has many strong supporters and many strong detractors, seemingly based on his business practices. He seems to be very attentive to making sure he gets every $$ he believe is his. His tactical advice seems to be worth considering.
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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#7

Post by allisji » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:42 pm

WTR wrote:
flechero wrote:
WTR wrote:Not someone I trust to follow or take advice from.
Might be helpful to add some color to that statement.

While I would agree on his advice for pistol choice- but his disdain for the 1911 :shock: doesn't change the lane of action, assuming one has a serviceable weapon and the mindset/skill set to employ it. :fire

So what's your rub? (I'm truly curious because at the surface I was interested in the book based on title and review.)
I suggest Goggleing him. He was convicted of workers compensation fraud in 2001 I believe. He is his own best supporter. He may have some valid points. However , I don't trust what he says.
a wolf in sheepdog's clothing?
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I have contacted my state rep Dennis Paul about co-sponsoring HB560.


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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#8

Post by flechero » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:23 pm

ELB wrote:
Gabe Suarez has written about this and his side of the story is out there as well. Worth googling 'til you find it. Short version as I remember it: He asked for permission to teach when he was off for a back injury, received it, then was charged with WC fraud. Had a choice of fighting it in court and going bankrupt paying for his lawyer, or pleading down to misdemeanor charges, paying restitution, and being flat broke as well as losing his job as a cop. He went for option 2.

He has many strong supporters and many strong detractors, seemingly based on his business practices. He seems to be very attentive to making sure he gets every $$ he believe is his. His tactical advice seems to be worth considering.
ELB- I did find the "whole story" and saw a similar (short version) commentary that he sought permission before working. I think he "paid his debt" and is forgiven (at least in my mind) which is what I tried to imply with the payback comments. I have no personal experience or opinion with his training/writing but think the book referenced in the OP may be worth a read. Heck, based on the lack of trust for the guy- maybe he has tactics for fighting dirty!! That would be helpful against an active shooter with a rifle.

We all need forgiveness and we all need a Savior. Most of us have done things in our past we could have been prosecuted for if we had only been caught. :oops:

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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#9

Post by Paladin » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:26 pm

Personally I don't trust any author/instructor 100% of the time. But I have never faced off against an active shooter like Mr. Suarez has. Suarez won that and other gunfights and wrote the book to share some of his experience. I'd hate to try and re-learn the lessons he's learned through experience.

This is a review of the Suarez Active Shooter Interdiction class. They teach the "rear naked" choke. A choke that was used in 2015 to stop the Paris train active shooter.
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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#10

Post by WTR » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:42 pm

The only reviews I have read about Suarez have been written by Suarez. You need to do some objective research on the man and his classes. Like pointing Airsofts at each other? If we are in such a forgiving mood, lets forgive Bill and Hill. This guy is just as scary.

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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#11

Post by Paladin » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:36 pm

I've trained with Suarez and found that the criticism of him is generally exaggerated. His methods are many times not mainstream, but I enjoy living in a country with diversity of thought. I don't agree with every opinion, but my mind is open to hearing differing ideas.
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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#12

Post by stroo » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:31 pm

What is the issue with Force on Force training whether using Airsofts or simunitions?

While I haven't done it, that seems like a lot more useful training than what I do on a square range shooting paper.

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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#13

Post by ELB » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:31 pm

WTR wrote:The only reviews I have read about Suarez have been written by Suarez. You need to do some objective research on the man and his classes. Like pointing Airsofts at each other? If we are in such a forgiving mood, lets forgive Bill and Hill. This guy is just as scary.
I know people who went to his classes as well, even worked for him as instructors. It's been awhile, but their criticisms were not of his training.

Also, I don't understand, "Like pointing Airsofts at each other?" As long as wearing proper eye and face protection, so what? They make excellent gunfight training tools. Especially getting stung by one (or more!) of those little plastic BBs in training! Let's you know when you made a mistake right away.
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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#14

Post by WTR » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:34 pm

To each their own.

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Re: "KILLING THE ACTIVE SHOOTER"

#15

Post by Paladin » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:18 pm

stroo wrote:What is the issue with Force on Force training whether using Airsofts or simunitions?

While I haven't done it, that seems like a lot more useful training than what I do on a square range shooting paper.
Yes! Force-on-Force is much better than square range shooting paper. Paper doesn't shoot back. Force-on-Force is the best training available. Period.

You can learn a lot just by watching Force-on-force training: First Person Defender. The improvement in the participants performance between scenarios is often the difference between living and dying. Most participants in First Person Defender only want to do more Force-on-Force training afterward.
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