HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

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montgomery
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HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

#1

Post by montgomery » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:39 pm

Looking for suggestions on who and how to set up a NFA trust ...

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ScottDLS
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Re: HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

#2

Post by ScottDLS » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:48 pm

Why would you bother? All beneficiaries of the trust that were "responsible persons" for the item would still have to fill out the same photo/fingerprints and pass the same background check. And I suspect the more background checks, the longer the process to get your Form 4 (registration) back. I did two machine guns and one silencer in my personal name back in 2002 and 2005 and it took 6-7 months for each. Now that you don't have to get your CLEO/Sheriff in your jurisdiction to sign the forms (you just notify them), I don't see any advantage in holding them in an entity. And even if I did for ownership purposes, I'd do it in a Texas LLC, of which I have formed several without an attorney. :???:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

#3

Post by mojohn » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:57 pm



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Re: HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

#4

Post by mojohn » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:00 pm



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montgomery
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Re: HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

#5

Post by montgomery » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:07 pm

Thank you Mojohn - I appreciate your help!


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Re: HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

#6

Post by mojohn » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:08 pm

:fire :fire :fire

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Jago668
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Re: HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

#7

Post by Jago668 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:50 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:48 pm
Why would you bother? All beneficiaries of the trust that were "responsible persons" for the item would still have to fill out the same photo/fingerprints and pass the same background check. And I suspect the more background checks, the longer the process to get your Form 4 (registration) back. I did two machine guns and one silencer in my personal name back in 2002 and 2005 and it took 6-7 months for each. Now that you don't have to get your CLEO/Sheriff in your jurisdiction to sign the forms (you just notify them), I don't see any advantage in holding them in an entity. And even if I did for ownership purposes, I'd do it in a Texas LLC, of which I have formed several without an attorney. :???:
While I don't expect the ATF to come busting down my door over it. Since my wife does have access to my gunsafe, the trust eliminates any worries about her being in possession of an nfa item. Like I said not really a huge concern. The second reason is passing the items down to my daughter. If I die before she is old enough her mother can hold those firearms without having to go through the form 5 process, and once my daughter is old enough we can get her added to the trust as a responsible party and have the fingerprints done at our convenience. Which lets her go off with any of them if she chooses, and when I die there is nothing else to be done.

The biggest reason to do a trust is for buddies that maybe go in on a machine gun together (or any nfa item). Since the item can reside at with any of them at any time. So sharing gets easier. I don't know how it works with a corporation, maybe that's easier than a trust.
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ScottDLS
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Re: HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

#8

Post by ScottDLS » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:09 pm

Jago668 wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:50 pm
ScottDLS wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:48 pm
Why would you bother? All beneficiaries of the trust that were "responsible persons" for the item would still have to fill out the same photo/fingerprints and pass the same background check. And I suspect the more background checks, the longer the process to get your Form 4 (registration) back. I did two machine guns and one silencer in my personal name back in 2002 and 2005 and it took 6-7 months for each. Now that you don't have to get your CLEO/Sheriff in your jurisdiction to sign the forms (you just notify them), I don't see any advantage in holding them in an entity. And even if I did for ownership purposes, I'd do it in a Texas LLC, of which I have formed several without an attorney. :???:
While I don't expect the ATF to come busting down my door over it. Since my wife does have access to my gunsafe, the trust eliminates any worries about her being in possession of an nfa item. Like I said not really a huge concern. The second reason is passing the items down to my daughter. If I die before she is old enough her mother can hold those firearms without having to go through the form 5 process, and once my daughter is old enough we can get her added to the trust as a responsible party and have the fingerprints done at our convenience. Which lets her go off with any of them if she chooses, and when I die there is nothing else to be done.

The biggest reason to do a trust is for buddies that maybe go in on a machine gun together (or any nfa item). Since the item can reside at with any of them at any time. So sharing gets easier. I don't know how it works with a corporation, maybe that's easier than a trust.
In Texas for shared ownership and responsibility, I personally think a LLC would be easier. If you already have a revocable trust for estate purposes, sure put the gun in it and then have wife and adult heirs become responsible parties. For a long time no one was really sure what ATF position on trusts was going to be, while with other business entities there was long established precedent.

Let's be honest too, the real reason that individual gun owners did trusts/entities was that they couldn't get the CLEO sign off. Now the lawyers that were doing trusts to dodge the CLEO sign off need a new reason to sell you a trust. :lol: Your point about shared ownership and responsibility is reasonable. If you already had a trust, just add your new guns to that. If you were creating one specifically for multiple individuals, then I'd use a Texas LLC. I already have one for my real estate holdings, but if I buy any more NFA items, I'm just going to get them in my name. My wife isn't interested in shooting them without me anyway. Even if mine aren't locked up, I think it's a stretch to say that you "transferred" an NFA item to someone just because they have access to it (assuming they are not a prohibited possessor). My theory where this could come in would be...your SBR for home defense is accessible when you are out of town, though it remains in your house. Can your wife legally use for self defense? My opinion is yes. Take it to the range without you....mmmm...maybe not.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Re: HOW TO SET UP NFA TRUST

#9

Post by SigM4 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:39 pm

Dean over at NFA Lawyers is great to work with. 24 hour turn around and continued help with any trust after it’s created. He’s also a very big NFA shooter and is personally very involved with the industry. Know a bunch of folks that have all used him with complete success. Can’t recommend him enough.
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full view.

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