The Pope has resigned!!

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Jasonw560
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#31

Post by Jasonw560 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:39 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:
Jasonw560 wrote:Just throwing this out there.....There are the prophecies of St. Malachy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My people haven't had a dog in this hunt since October 31, 1519. :mrgreen:
There are many "prophecies" beyond Malachy's. The third secret of Lourdes dealt with the Pope.

I prefer to place my trust in others besides these.

We are not required to believe in these.

Anygunanywhere
I understand you're not.

I just bring it up because those two will be the things the Alex Jones types will start spewing. Probably in the next day or two.
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#32

Post by philip964 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:00 pm

Normally it is thought that God himself retires the pope.
Now God could have told him to resign.
I certainly hope it does not come that people around him convinced him to resign.

I heard from someone on a radio station that the US Cardinals would not be allowed to vote, I can't imagine that is true.
Anyone know why or if its false?

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anygunanywhere
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#33

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:24 pm

philip964 wrote:Normally it is thought that God himself retires the pope.
Now God could have told him to resign.
I certainly hope it does not come that people around him convinced him to resign.

I heard from someone on a radio station that the US Cardinals would not be allowed to vote, I can't imagine that is true.
Anyone know why or if its false?
Not all cardinals are allowed to vote. Only 120 are included in the conclave. This is all I know but can find out more.

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#34

Post by Wodathunkit » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:30 pm

Is this something that President Obama could apply for? :mrgreen:
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Jasonw560
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#35

Post by Jasonw560 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:35 pm

Wodathunkit wrote:Is this something that President Obama could apply for? :mrgreen:
I can see him trying to annul his marriage, convert to Catholicism, taking a crash ourse in priesthood, and throwing his hat in the ring as the bishop from Kenya.
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#36

Post by fickman » Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:44 pm

I've been anathema since the Council of Trent, so I guess they won't value my input. :rules:
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#37

Post by RPB » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:38 pm

Jasonw560 wrote:
Wodathunkit wrote:Is this something that President Obama could apply for? :mrgreen:
I can see him trying to annul his marriage, convert to Catholicism, taking a crash ourse in priesthood, and throwing his hat in the ring as the bishop from Kenya.
I may have heard that the latest revision of his birth certificate .pdf shows that his parents were Catholic so ....
I'm no lawyer

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#38

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:42 pm

Redneck_Buddha wrote:The search for a new Pope should have commenced on April 19, 2005, the day Benedict took office. If they are scrambling now, well, they've had nearly eight years and knew that he was going to be "transitional".
I'm not Catholic, but I pay attention to the news. I had no idea he was going to be "transitional." Got anything to support that?

By the way guys, for what it's worth, I did not post this thread to provide opportunities to beat up on Catholicism, Catholics, or on the Pope. I just spent a mentoring session a couple of hours ago with a young man who told me that this Pope had been a Nazi during WW2 in Poland. Now, this has been thoroughly and completely debunked (I set my young friend straight on it), but people keep repeating it. Why is that? It's ignorance, plain and simple. If you were a person of some Christian spiritual authority in Afghanistan, and you interceded with the Taliban to protect your church, would that make you a Taliban? No, of course not. Such charges are as ridiculous as the race card.

I was alive and remember the Kennedy/Nixon presidential campaign. Republicans said that if Kennedy won, he would give the Pope authority over his decisions as President. Did he? No, of course not. That's just ignorant poppycock. The media like to beat up on the Catholic church because it is a big, easy target. Since, unlike many Protestant denominations, it has a large centralized "governmental" structure, it is easy and convenient to try and tar ALL believers with the sins of a few. It is cheap yellow journalism, and it's intellectually bankrupt.

I posted this thread because Pope Benedict XVI is a very important person on the world stage. There are approximately 1.2 BILLION Catholics in the world (SOURCE), about 4 times as many Catholics as there are Americans, and he's sort of like their "President." That makes the Pope an immensely important person in the world, and the fact that this one is stepping down—the first one to do so in 600 years—is a big news story.

Can we have a talk about what that might mean, without taking swats at the believers?
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#39

Post by 3dfxMM » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:22 pm

Pope Benedict XVI was barely 18 when the war ended. I doubt he was a Nazi or a spiritual authority during WWII.

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#40

Post by JALLEN » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:35 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
I was alive and remember the Kennedy/Nixon presidential campaign. Republicans said that if Kennedy won, he would give the Pope authority over his decisions as President. Did he? No, of course not. That's just ignorant poppycock. The media like to beat up on the Catholic church because it is a big, easy target. Since, unlike many Protestant denominations, it has a large centralized "governmental" structure, it is easy and convenient to try and tar ALL believers with the sins of a few. It is cheap yellow journalism, and it's intellectually bankrupt.
I, too, remember that very well. It was seen as a "big deal", but turned to to be nothing because Kennedy turned out to be one of the biggest phonies ever to walk the earth. The Kennedy PR machine portrayed him as a youthful, vigorous family man, Catholic to the max. The truth was completely different. Kennedy paid no more attention to the Pope or his teachings than he did to bubble gum wrappers. Harry Truman got it right. Truman wasn't afraid of The Pope, he was afraid of The Pop... Kennedy's father, Joseph P. Kennedy, a whiskey smuggler and stock swindler, among other unsavory things

Kennedy inspired a youthful BJ Clinton to want to become President in the worst way, which eventually he was.
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#41

Post by fickman » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:50 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Redneck_Buddha wrote:The search for a new Pope should have commenced on April 19, 2005, the day Benedict took office. If they are scrambling now, well, they've had nearly eight years and knew that he was going to be "transitional".
I'm not Catholic, but I pay attention to the news. I had no idea he was going to be "transitional." Got anything to support that?
There was a lot of analysis after the death of JPII saying that the choice would send a message both in his doctrinal stances and in his age.

After JPI died, they purposefully chose a younger Pope to allow for a longer tenure. JPII held the office for a notably long time, and the analysts (read: talking heads on cable news) were saying it was unlikely that they would choose a successor that was also as young.

By choosing Ratzinger, they were purposefully choosing a man who was doctrinally conservative and unlikely to hold the post for decades.

I can't cite any sources, but I remember those discussions during the last selection process. It was the basically the papal affairs equivalent of Bob Costas or Chris Collinsworth doing play-by-play color commentary.
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#42

Post by philip964 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:04 pm

My understanding he was a member of the Hitler Youth . He is German, from Bavaria, (nice place BTW), not Polish. Hitler Youth was required of all boys on their 14 birthday in Germany. With his father a police officer, I doubt he could have avoided joining and lived. It has been quoted, he was unenthusiastic.

More that being the spiritual leader of the Catholics, many Christians of all faiths look to the Pope not for specific guidance, but as more of Christian leader whose message to them generally follows the teachings of Christ. If for example he was to encourage more hand washing, many Christians would wash their hands more, even if they were not Catholic.

I fervently wish the Muslims had such a leader, as it is now, they do not have a central figure to make decisions on faith. Thus numerous people claim to know the Koran better than everyone else and make judgements that contradict one another. It has encouraged "fatwas shopping" where followers shop around for a religious leader who agrees with what they want to do, or how they want to behave.

Following John Paul II has been a tough act to follow. He has not had an easy time. I think his move was bold and is to be commended. However, I hope it was a desire given to him by God, and not a political move. He is to Catholics after all, not a politician.

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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#43

Post by RX8er » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:06 pm

LSUTiger wrote:What's a Pople?
I was wondering the same thing.

Guess an edited subject is in order. :biggrinjester:
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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#44

Post by Andrew » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:11 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:
Andrew wrote: Just my opinion. Benedict has been a study in contrasts. While supporting the spiritual and moral goals of the prelature there have been some points of friction between Benedict and OD. Blurring in the roles of layity and clergy, Benedict is very traditional in his views on the roles of both within the Church. While not really an option, doing without secular clergy would be a goal I believe he would favor. The role of women in OD in leadership/teaching. Focus on works, sure to be a theological thorn in his ecumenical outreach with Reformation churches.
Then again I wonder what his position really is on ecumenical outreach. The "Subsistit in" (from the Lumen Gentium) decision seemed to turn back the clock to a pre Vatican II time.
Do you have a firm grasp about Opus Dei?

There have been no blurring in the roles of clergy and laity.

There is no such thing as secular clergy in the Catholic church. Pope Benedict nor any Pope has sought to eliminate the laity from active participation in the Church. They have wanted greater participation. There has always been absolute defined roles for both. The Church cannot exist without the ordained clergy nor the laity. They are both the Church.

Pope Benedict has reached out ecumenically during his tenure. He has pushed many groups (SSPX for example) to return.

Lumen Gentium did not turn back the clock to Pre-Vatican II. Pope Benedict has been trying to repair the misconceptions and errors that disobedient and misguided countries and bishops have taken when "interpreting" Vatican II. The return to the Pre-Vatican II liturgical translations is a prime example.

Anygunanywhere
Any,
I am not attacking the Church.
"There is no such thing as secular clergy in the Catholic church."

I was married by a Diocesan Priest and there are Deacons celebrating the Mass at the altar most every time I attend. Both are examples of secular clergy, that live in the world outside of the discipline of a monastic order. St Thomas of Canterbury(Thomas a' Becket) is their patron. Some Deacons are even excused from the obligation of following the Liturgy of the Hours.

"There have been no blurring in the roles of clergy and laity. Pope Benedict nor any Pope has sought to eliminate the laity from active participation in the Church. They have wanted greater participation. There has always been absolute defined roles for both. The Church cannot exist without the ordained clergy nor the laity. They are both the Church."

Never said any of this. I said I believed there was a blurring of the roles within Opus Dei, Period. That someone should accept instruction or correction from a young female member of the laity in regards their spiritual life isn't acceptable to me. Which leads to,

"Do you have a firm grasp about Opus Dei?" Yes, I do. I was approached about membership just shortly after my eldest son's passing. I listened, I questioned, I read, and ultimately chose not to participate.

"Pope Benedict has reached out ecumenically during his tenure. He has pushed many groups (SSPX for example) to return."

The dialogue between the Holy See and the SSPX is a matter of Church discipline, excommunication due to withdrawal from submission to the Supreme Pontiff, not ecumenical outreach. And while the Pope has remitted those excommunications the SSPX still remains outside full communion willfully.

"Lumen Gentium did not turn back the clock to Pre-Vatican II. Pope Benedict has been trying to repair the misconceptions and errors that disobedient and misguided countries and bishops have taken when "interpreting" Vatican II. The return to the Pre-Vatican II liturgical translations is a prime example"

Agreed. I believe his statements in 2000 while still Prefect CDF pretty much put paid to that. Ecumenical Outreach, IMO, was his dialogue with Eastern, Lutheran, and Anglican congregations as well as those outside the Christian faith. The 2007 statement by his successor to the Prefecture was bad timing at the very least. Which led to my question on his position vis-a-vis ecumenical outreach.


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Re: The Pople has resigned!!

#45

Post by StevenFromTexas » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:33 pm

The Pope is resigning, huh? Yawn. I think I'll move on to another topic.

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