Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#166

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:17 am

JALLEN wrote:. . . I don't understand the vitriol over Cruz. He didn't use the "e" word. So what? If he refuses to participate with Trump in the campaign, that might be a different story.
I have repeatedly stated that Cruz should have taken a Ronald Reagan approach. Reagan didn't endorse Ford, but he stood on the platform during the convention and gave a tremendous speech about unity, the risks we faced and he did it standing right next to Ford. Heck, he was almost arm-in-arm with Ford and smiling at him every time he looked at Ford. Everything about Reagan's speech and demeanor called for people to vote for Gerald Ford. Four years later, Reagan was elected and became the greatest President this country has ever seen. Politicians plan and scheem, while statesmen put the country's best interest ahead of their own.

Cruz's failure wasn't the lack of stating "I endorse Trump," it was what he said about the voting booth. Cruz said to go down the ballot and vote for people individually. (Message: Don't vote straight Republican ticket.] Then he said to "vote your conscience." Overall his speech was great, but it was the ending I have discussed that drew boos so loud his final words could hardly be heard.

I pains me to say these things about a man I have respected, appreciated and supported since he was Solicitor General of Texas. He's brilliant and he's right on most if not all issues, at least in my view. Last night, at a minimum, he took a step toward making sure none of the values he has professed and that I share will be exhibited by the next occupant of the White House. At worst, he did so for selfish reasons and in a misguided attempt to pave a way for him to become President.

Remember, 2020 is not merely fours years hence, it's four years and four Supreme Court Justices down the road.

Chas.



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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#167

Post by parabelum » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:21 am

In the grand scheme of things, no. I think that the opinionated crowd... those of us here and at the convention, that segment has its mind already made up as to who they will vote for, probably up to 98%'ile.

The average a-political blimp floating along out there doesn't even pay attention until after the Labor Day. So, if Cruz keeps these shenanigans up after September, then this sort of stuff he pulled last night will begin to cumulatively take toll on Trump campaign and help that witch, that's my opinion.

I don't trust Cruz at all. He has proven to be a major liar and back stabber. Remember when not that long ago, he stood alongside Trump in DC? What a weasel.
Last edited by parabelum on Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#168

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:23 am

LSUTiger wrote:Does anybody really think that Ted Cruz's speech is gonna cost Trump the election? People are saying that even the VP picks are irrelevant. I agree. The only thing that matters is Trump vs Clinton. They only thing that might win or lose the election for Trump is his own words. That's the only thing that really matters or anyone will remember when they go to the voting booth.
I agree with you to an extent, but the "Cruz factor" that concern's me is his supporters staying home, or not voting in the Presidential election. Look at the stunt they tried to pull off at the Rules Committee meeting and on the floor of the Convention. At least some walked out during or at the end of Cruz's speech.

In my opinion, it's not so much that Cruz gave aid to the enemy, but his failure to rally the troops to defeat Hillary.

Chas.

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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#169

Post by fickman » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:24 am

I already liked Cruz, and last night he elevated himself several notches in my view.

As for the pledge, first, I do think that last night's speech was supportive of Trump and upheld the pledge. More importantly, I think that pledge comes with some basic, common sense, tacit terms and conditions. The unprecedented nature and outright extremity of Trump's behavior in his personal attacks against Cruz' family would easily exempt Cruz from the obligation almost as clearly as if Trump had followed through with his hypothetical situation and shot a person on the streets of New York. I would say this even if Trump had apologized, which, of course, he hasn't.

Mr. Trump may never understand that some things - for some people - are never for sale at any price. I admire Cruz for holding to his principles and standing firm in defense of his family's honor.

I think the speech was in a way a conditional challenge to Trump - to uphold the core conservative principles and not to waiver from them, and in turn, the Party will unify behind the ideology and anybody who advances it.
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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#170

Post by twomillenium » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:26 am

I do not expect Sen. Cruz to endorse such a person, nor should you. I do stand with Sen. Cruz's Message and will vote with my heart for the better of bad choices (my words). I will continue to support Sen. Cruz. now and in 2018 and 2020. Just the fact that Sen. Cruz did not completely destroy this person who attacked his family because it would have completely destroyed the party, makes me admire him even more.

Come November, I believe my choices are very limited and as a patriotic American citizen and I will be voting on the slowest path of destruction. I hope and pray, I am wrong and the facts of history will not repeat themselves and the person I vote for has really suddenly changed.

While my vote will be cast for Trump it will not be an endorsement of Trump but it will be a desperate vote to keep Clinton and her ilk out of office. I also understand that it is easier for those who are not as conservative to accept Trump, I am not cut of that fabric.

This post is not intended to cast dispersion on anyone nor is it intended to flame others who disagree with me. I consider all on this forum a friend until they prove themselves unworthy of friendship. I feel most of us feel this way.

Thanks for reading my rant and I think we can all agree in November that Hillary should be sent on to fulltime Grandmother duty.
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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#171

Post by LSUTiger » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:28 am

locke_n_load wrote:So the actual statement made during the debates was " Senator Cruz, yes or no, you will support Donald Trump is he's the nominee?"

I think you can support someone without officially endorsing them - he did speak at the RNC, where he did garner attention, denounce democrats, and did not say anything negative about Trump.
I believe someone in Trump's camp also asked if he would help Trump with his SC appointees, and Ted said he would give input, if asked, to ensure people who uphold the Constitution are put into SCOTUS. That sounds like support to me.
:iagree:

I think Cruz will no doubt work with and assist Trump to achieve all the things he talked about in his speech. And given the history of Trump's vitriol toward Cruz with the "lying Ted", calling his wife crazy and ugly, saying his father helped assassinate Kennedy and accused him of having multiple affairs and all the rest , it takes a pretty big man to even show up to speak at the RNC, pledge or no pledge. Everything he said was positive and representative of what IMHO the party and the country desperately need, to get back on message and on track.

I truly believe Ted Cruz has the best interest of the country at heart. It has been reported that Trumps own campaign at the last minute tried to threaten Cruz to endorse Trump or they would sabotaged the message of the speech by organizing some delegates to boo Cruz if he didn't out right endorse him. If everyone simply would have cheered and applauded it would have been perceived as an endorsement. So if Cruz's speech, which was pre-approved by the Trump campaign costs Trump the election, it's Trump own fault.

If I recall correctly, Trump initially said he was going to run regardless of the nomination when it wasn't yet as clear he was going to be the nominee and then when it became more apparent he was going to be he signed a pledge. How convenient.
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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#172

Post by LSUTiger » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:29 am

fickman wrote:I already liked Cruz, and last night he elevated himself several notches in my view.

As for the pledge, first, I do think that last night's speech was supportive of Trump and upheld the pledge. More importantly, I think that pledge comes with some basic, common sense, tacit terms and conditions. The unprecedented nature and outright extremity of Trump's behavior in his personal attacks against Cruz' family would easily exempt Cruz from the obligation almost as clearly as if Trump had followed through with his hypothetical situation and shot a person on the streets of New York. I would say this even if Trump had apologized, which, of course, he hasn't.

Mr. Trump may never understand that some things - for some people - are never for sale at any price. I admire Cruz for holding to his principles and standing firm in defense of his family's honor.

I think the speech was in a way a conditional challenge to Trump - to uphold the core conservative principles and not to waiver from them, and in turn, the Party will unify behind the ideology and anybody who advances it.
:iagree:
Chance favors the prepared. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.
There is no safety in denial. When seconds count the Police are only minutes away.
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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#173

Post by LSUTiger » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:30 am

twomillenium wrote:I do not expect Sen. Cruz to endorse such a person, nor should you. I do stand with Sen. Cruz's Message and will vote with my heart for the better of bad choices (my words). I will continue to support Sen. Cruz. now and in 2018 and 2020. Just the fact that Sen. Cruz did not completely destroy this person who attacked his family because it would have completely destroyed the party, makes me admire him even more.

Come November, I believe my choices are very limited and as a patriotic American citizen and I will be voting on the slowest path of destruction. I hope and pray, I am wrong and the facts of history will not repeat themselves and the person I vote for has really suddenly changed.

While my vote will be cast for Trump it will not be an endorsement of Trump but it will be a desperate vote to keep Clinton and her ilk out of office. I also understand that it is easier for those who are not as conservative to accept Trump, I am not cut of that fabric.

This post is not intended to cast dispersion on anyone nor is it intended to flame others who disagree with me. I consider all on this forum a friend until they prove themselves unworthy of friendship. I feel most of us feel this way.

Thanks for reading my rant and I think we can all agree in November that Hillary should be sent on to fulltime Grandmother duty.
:iagree:
Chance favors the prepared. Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.
There is no safety in denial. When seconds count the Police are only minutes away.
Sometimes I really wish a lawyer would chime in and clear things up. Do we have any lawyers on this forum?

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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble

#174

Post by JALLEN » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:33 am

NTexCopRetired wrote:
JALLEN wrote:
bblhd672 wrote: :iagree: Very disappointed in Cruz, but glad that he has fully exposed himself as part of the Republican elite interested solely interested in maintaining their own power.
It will come as quite a shock to the so-called "Republican elite" that Cruz is really one of them. Who knew?

I don't understand the vitriol over Cruz. He didn't use the "e" word. So what? If he refuses to participate with Trump in the campaign, that might be a different story.

I wonder if there is a "Republican elite." I've followed Republican Party politics for more than 50 years, and don't recall ever hearing the term, certainly not as a pejorative. There were "RINOS", "striped pants Republicans", "Rockefeller Republicans", etc. Everybody needs a bogeyman to rally themselves against.

If Trump wins, it will be with a great many votes unenthusiastically cast by those who wish there was a better choice. Maybe he will get there the old fashioned way, by "earning it."
I agree with you. Mr. Cruz is not part of the Republican elite or establishment. I am not vitriolic toward Sen. Cruz. I am disappointed. I wanted to see him rise above all this and show leadership and give the party direction to overcome the Clinton plague. He did not do that.

The Republican party has had it's factions for as long as I can remember. What I have seen in my 68 years is the rise of the political ruling class and it is not bound by party lines, values, platforms or such. They are not bogeymen or bogeywomen. They are bound by the desire for power and the will to retain it at all costs.

Sure there has been. Read accounts of past conventions, before TV. Talk about ruling class! Talk about bare knuckles and long knives!!

Everybody sets up bogeymen in these fights and paints opponents with that brush.

Like Harry Truman often said, "The only thing new in the world is history you don't know."

I recall a tv program taped at the Bush Library in College Station. Bush 41 had invited Ted Kennedy to discuss things. President Bush started the program with a list of quotes from Senator Kennedy about Bush. After half a dozen or so, Kennedy was really wincing. They had a good laugh about it, agreed that if you don't have a thick skin, politics may not be for you, nobody takes it personally, etc. Of course, Bush is an uncommonly gracious and classy fellow and none of the bad things Kennedy had said about him were true.

Another Trumanism: "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."
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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#175

Post by twomillenium » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:36 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
LSUTiger wrote:Does anybody really think that Ted Cruz's speech is gonna cost Trump the election? People are saying that even the VP picks are irrelevant. I agree. The only thing that matters is Trump vs Clinton. They only thing that might win or lose the election for Trump is his own words. That's the only thing that really matters or anyone will remember when they go to the voting booth.
I agree with you to an extent, but the "Cruz factor" that concern's me is his supporters staying home, or not voting in the Presidential election. Look at the stunt they tried to pull off at the Rules Committee meeting and on the floor of the Convention. At least some walked out during or at the end of Cruz's speech.

In my opinion, it's not so much that Cruz gave aid to the enemy, but his failure to rally the troops to defeat Hillary.

Chas.
Sen. Cruz did rally the troops! He told everyone including his supporters to VOTE your heart. Anyone who thinks that voting your heart in Nov. might be a vote for Clinton, was not going to vote for the Republican nominee. No matter who it was.
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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#176

Post by Skiprr » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:42 am

If you did not see Ted Cruz address the Texas delegation at a breakfast meeting in Cleveland this morning, watch for excerpts to be replayed on cable news channels, and look for (hopefully) a video of the entire thing to be posted sometime soon.

He doubled-down and made it absolutely clear that the race remains personal to him, and that he does not support Donald Trump. Even some of the Texas delegates questioned him on, my words, taking a hammer to the wedge he's trying to drive into the Republican Party schism.

(Edited to add a link to a YouTube video of most of the Texas delegation breakfast address: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA9H3HLB5H4. I won't embed it for playing here because we're trying to wind down this Topic. Click if you want to watch, but please let's not include new comments here in this Topic.)
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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#177

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:42 am

twomillenium wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
LSUTiger wrote:Does anybody really think that Ted Cruz's speech is gonna cost Trump the election? People are saying that even the VP picks are irrelevant. I agree. The only thing that matters is Trump vs Clinton. They only thing that might win or lose the election for Trump is his own words. That's the only thing that really matters or anyone will remember when they go to the voting booth.
I agree with you to an extent, but the "Cruz factor" that concern's me is his supporters staying home, or not voting in the Presidential election. Look at the stunt they tried to pull off at the Rules Committee meeting and on the floor of the Convention. At least some walked out during or at the end of Cruz's speech.

In my opinion, it's not so much that Cruz gave aid to the enemy, but his failure to rally the troops to defeat Hillary.

Chas.
Sen. Cruz did rally the troops! He told everyone including his supporters to VOTE your heart. Anyone who thinks that voting your heart in Nov. might be a vote for Clinton, was not going to vote for the Republican nominee. No matter who it was.
When your Party has nominated a candidate and you say to "vote your heart/conscience" rather than "vote for ______________________," you are not rallying the troops. You are sending quite a different message.

Chas.

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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#178

Post by LSUTiger » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:43 am

Here's Everything You Need To Know About Cruz's 'Vote Your Conscience' Speech

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7663/here ... benshapiro
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There is no safety in denial. When seconds count the Police are only minutes away.
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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#179

Post by bblhd672 » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:46 am

Politics above patriotism will bring about our ruin.
The left lies about everything. Truth is a liberal value, and truth is a conservative value, but it has never been a left-wing value. People on the left say whatever advances their immediate agenda. Power is their moral lodestar; therefore, truth is always subservient to it. - Dennis Prager


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Re: Republican Convention: Cruz supporters planning trouble?

#180

Post by locke_n_load » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:46 am

LSUTiger wrote:
locke_n_load wrote:So the actual statement made during the debates was " Senator Cruz, yes or no, you will support Donald Trump is he's the nominee?"

I think you can support someone without officially endorsing them - he did speak at the RNC, where he did garner attention, denounce democrats, and did not say anything negative about Trump.
I believe someone in Trump's camp also asked if he would help Trump with his SC appointees, and Ted said he would give input, if asked, to ensure people who uphold the Constitution are put into SCOTUS. That sounds like support to me.
:iagree:

I think Cruz will no doubt work with and assist Trump to achieve all the things he talked about in his speech. And given the history of Trump's vitriol toward Cruz with the "lying Ted", calling his wife crazy and ugly, saying his father helped assassinate Kennedy and accused him of having multiple affairs and all the rest , it takes a pretty big man to even show up to speak at the RNC, pledge or no pledge. Everything he said was positive and representative of what IMHO the party and the country desperately need, to get back on message and on track.

I truly believe Ted Cruz has the best interest of the country at heart. It has been reported that Trumps own campaign at the last minute tried to threaten Cruz to endorse Trump or they would sabotaged the message of the speech by organizing some delegates to boo Cruz if he didn't out right endorse him. If everyone simply would have cheered and applauded it would have been perceived as an endorsement. So if Cruz's speech, which was pre-approved by the Trump campaign costs Trump the election, it's Trump own fault.

If I recall correctly, Trump initially said he was going to run regardless of the nomination when it wasn't yet as clear he was going to be the nominee and then when it became more apparent he was going to be he signed a pledge. How convenient.
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