Today in Trump's new term as President

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Bitter Clinger
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1786

Post by Bitter Clinger » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:50 pm

philip964 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:13 pm
So in the last few days a small post or two is turning into a wave on Facebook amount my anti gun friends.

It’s all about children being held in consentration camps in former Walmart’s here in Texas. Apparently if your a parent illegally crossing the border with your child and your arrested, they don’t put the child in jail with you, but instead separate you from your child and put you both in separate facilities. The children apparently being temporarily housed in a former Walmart.

I’ve always felt when a country tries to invade another with its citizens, it should be considered an act of war. Giving us the right to invade that country and fix whatever problem they have.

This is going to be big news in the coming weeks. The left obviously wants every person who shows up on our border to be given every courtesy imaginable, until our country looks like where they left.
It is simply enforcement of existing laws. Something that did not happen under a corrupt Obama DOJ. The law could be changed tomorrow, and might well be, if the DemocRats were to cease using illegals as political pawns. Oh, and BTW, how do we know which children are truly part of a family and which children might be being trafficked?
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RottenApple
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1787

Post by RottenApple » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:01 pm

Bitter Clinger wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:50 pm
It is simply enforcement of existing laws. Something that did not happen under a corrupt Obama DOJ. The law could be changed tomorrow, and might well be, if the DemocRats were to cease using illegals as political pawns. Oh, and BTW, how do we know which children are truly part of a family and which children might be being trafficked?
From what little I've read on this subject, the corrupt Obama DOJ actually did the exact same thing. But the media turned a blind eye to it because it was their messiah doing/allowing it.


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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1788

Post by srothstein » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:55 pm

From what I have been able to find, the problem is that Obama did not do this very much, even though it was the law and policy. The uproar started when Sessions started a new policy of zero tolerance for illegals crossing the border. He has ordered the Dept of Justice to file criminal charges against every adult who is caught crossing the border illegally. Obama, of course, did not enforce the law. He used civil deportation procedures instead of the criminal laws.

Of course, in any case where a person is arrested, it is illegal to place children in the same facility as adults. It is also illegal to keep males and females in the same facility. So, if a family of four (mother, father, son, and daughter) comes across the border, they get separated. Under the current policy, the mother goes to one facility for adult females, the father goes to a second facility for adult males, the son goes to a third facility for juvenile males, and the daughter to a fourth facility for female juveniles. If the children are young enough or not charged with any crimes, they might go to a children's shelter together instead of being split apart farther.

I think the people organizing the protests know this and are using the child separation argument as a disguised attack on the criminal charges part. They not only do not want the charges but they also do not want them deported. Most of the protesters may not be aware and are just the "useful idiots" that usually get used like this.
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1789

Post by dale blanker » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:32 am

Bitter Clinger wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:06 pm
philbo wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:27 pm
A federal judge on Friday sent Paul Manafort to jail pending trial after he was charged with witness tampering.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... op+News%29

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:iagree: but I didn't know that Manafort was transgender!
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1790

Post by philbo » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:07 am

A few outright untruth's from the White House Press Conference yesterday, there were more but none seemed to have been noticed by fox news.

1. “I think that the report yesterday, maybe more importantly than anything, it totally exonerates me. There was no collusion. There was no obstruction. And if you read the report, you’ll see that.”
This is false. The Justice Department inspector general on June 14 released a report that found fault with the FBI’s handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation. The 500-page report doesn’t delve into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election or possible collusion with Trump’s campaign, although it does scrutinise anti-Trump texts messages sent by several FBI agents. This report would support the initial stated reason for firing Comey drafted by Rosenstein, but does not change trump's later statement that he fired comey for "the Russian thing"

2. “Manafort has nothing to do with our campaign … I feel a little badly about it. They went back 12 years to get things that he did 12 years ago?

“You know, Paul Manafort worked for me for a very short period of time. He worked for Ronald Reagan. He worked for Bob Dole. He worked for John McCain, or his firm did. He worked for many other Republicans. He worked for me, what, for 49 days or something? A very short period of time.”
Manafort, who was sent to jail June 15 for violating bail conditions, worked on Trump’s presidential campaign for 144 days in 2016, 92 of them as its chairman. He was an instrumental figure. The president's memory is getting worse.

3. “I feel badly for General Flynn. He’s lost his house. He’s lost his life. And some people say he lied, and some people say he didn’t lie. I mean, really, it turned out maybe he didn’t lie. So how can you do that?”
Trump has said repeatedly that he dismissed Michael Flynn for lying. The president asked for the resignation of his first national security adviser and accepted it February 13, 2017. Days later, in a news conference February 16, 2017, Trump said he had fired Flynn for providing incomplete information to Vice President Mike Pence about his contacts with the Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak. In December 2017, the president tweeted: “I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI.” Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Kislyak. The president's memory is fuzzy here at best.

4. “I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law.”
This is false. As part of its border crackdown, the Trump administration is separating undocumented immigrant children from their parents largely due to a “zero tolerance” policy implemented by Attorney General Jeff Sessions. No law requires these separations. The government must release rather than detain immigrant children under a 1997 federal consent decree and a bipartisan human trafficking law from 2008. But neither of these requires family separations. This could be ended with a call to DHS, stated Republican Lindsey Graham.

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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1791

Post by mojo84 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:18 am

philbo wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:07 am
A few outright untruth's from the White House Press Conference yesterday, there were more but none seemed to have been noticed by fox news.

1. “I think that the report yesterday, maybe more importantly than anything, it totally exonerates me. There was no collusion. There was no obstruction. And if you read the report, you’ll see that.”
This is false. The Justice Department inspector general on June 14 released a report that found fault with the FBI’s handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation. The 500-page report doesn’t delve into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election or possible collusion with Trump’s campaign, although it does scrutinise anti-Trump texts messages sent by several FBI agents. This report would support the initial stated reason for firing Comey drafted by Rosenstein, but does not change trump's later statement that he fired comey for "the Russian thing"

2. “Manafort has nothing to do with our campaign … I feel a little badly about it. They went back 12 years to get things that he did 12 years ago?

“You know, Paul Manafort worked for me for a very short period of time. He worked for Ronald Reagan. He worked for Bob Dole. He worked for John McCain, or his firm did. He worked for many other Republicans. He worked for me, what, for 49 days or something? A very short period of time.”
Manafort, who was sent to jail June 15 for violating bail conditions, worked on Trump’s presidential campaign for 144 days in 2016, 92 of them as its chairman. He was an instrumental figure. The president's memory is getting worse.

3. “I feel badly for General Flynn. He’s lost his house. He’s lost his life. And some people say he lied, and some people say he didn’t lie. I mean, really, it turned out maybe he didn’t lie. So how can you do that?”
Trump has said repeatedly that he dismissed Michael Flynn for lying. The president asked for the resignation of his first national security adviser and accepted it February 13, 2017. Days later, in a news conference February 16, 2017, Trump said he had fired Flynn for providing incomplete information to Vice President Mike Pence about his contacts with the Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak. In December 2017, the president tweeted: “I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI.” Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Kislyak. The president's memory is fuzzy here at best.

4. “I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law.”
This is false. As part of its border crackdown, the Trump administration is separating undocumented immigrant children from their parents largely due to a “zero tolerance” policy implemented by Attorney General Jeff Sessions. No law requires these separations. The government must release rather than detain immigrant children under a 1997 federal consent decree and a bipartisan human trafficking law from 2008. But neither of these requires family separations. This could be ended with a call to DHS, stated Republican Lindsey Graham.
Nothing but liberal spin in this post.


philbo
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1792

Post by philbo » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:30 am

mojo84 wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:18 am
Nothing but liberal spin in this post.
That's the kind of reasoned, logical response I've come to expect from trump supporters. Thank you! :tiphat:

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mojo84
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1793

Post by mojo84 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:53 am

philbo wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:30 am
mojo84 wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:18 am
Nothing but liberal spin in this post.
That's the kind of reasoned, logical response I've come to expect from trump supporters. Thank you! :tiphat:

Image
It's a fact based on reasoning and logic, not liberal logic and reasoning.


Bill O'Rights
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1794

Post by Bill O'Rights » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:52 am

philip964 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:13 pm
So in the last few days a small post or two is turning into a wave on Facebook amount my anti gun friends.

It’s all about children being held in consentration camps in former Walmart’s here in Texas. Apparently if your a parent illegally crossing the border with your child and your arrested, they don’t put the child in jail with you, but instead separate you from your child and put you both in separate facilities. The children apparently being temporarily housed in a former Walmart.
My response was to accuse them of being heartless for wanting to throw children in jail for their parents' crime. :evil2:


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philip964
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1795

Post by philip964 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:59 am

mojo84 wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:18 am
philbo wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:07 am
A few outright untruth's from the White House Press Conference yesterday, there were more but none seemed to have been noticed by fox news.

1. “I think that the report yesterday, maybe more importantly than anything, it totally exonerates me. There was no collusion. There was no obstruction. And if you read the report, you’ll see that.”
This is false. The Justice Department inspector general on June 14 released a report that found fault with the FBI’s handling of the Hillary Clinton email investigation. The 500-page report doesn’t delve into Russia’s interference in the 2016 election or possible collusion with Trump’s campaign, although it does scrutinise anti-Trump texts messages sent by several FBI agents. This report would support the initial stated reason for firing Comey drafted by Rosenstein, but does not change trump's later statement that he fired comey for "the Russian thing"

2. “Manafort has nothing to do with our campaign … I feel a little badly about it. They went back 12 years to get things that he did 12 years ago?

“You know, Paul Manafort worked for me for a very short period of time. He worked for Ronald Reagan. He worked for Bob Dole. He worked for John McCain, or his firm did. He worked for many other Republicans. He worked for me, what, for 49 days or something? A very short period of time.”
Manafort, who was sent to jail June 15 for violating bail conditions, worked on Trump’s presidential campaign for 144 days in 2016, 92 of them as its chairman. He was an instrumental figure. The president's memory is getting worse.

3. “I feel badly for General Flynn. He’s lost his house. He’s lost his life. And some people say he lied, and some people say he didn’t lie. I mean, really, it turned out maybe he didn’t lie. So how can you do that?”
Trump has said repeatedly that he dismissed Michael Flynn for lying. The president asked for the resignation of his first national security adviser and accepted it February 13, 2017. Days later, in a news conference February 16, 2017, Trump said he had fired Flynn for providing incomplete information to Vice President Mike Pence about his contacts with the Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak. In December 2017, the president tweeted: “I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI.” Flynn has pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Kislyak. The president's memory is fuzzy here at best.

4. “I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law.”
This is false. As part of its border crackdown, the Trump administration is separating undocumented immigrant children from their parents largely due to a “zero tolerance” policy implemented by Attorney General Jeff Sessions. No law requires these separations. The government must release rather than detain immigrant children under a 1997 federal consent decree and a bipartisan human trafficking law from 2008. But neither of these requires family separations. This could be ended with a call to DHS, stated Republican Lindsey Graham.
Nothing but liberal spin in this post.
I view this thread as a historical record of non gun grabbing President Trump’s 8 years in office. It’s good that we are getting alternative views added. Later generation historical scholars may research this thread to find the true American feelings during this time when America turned away and defeated its totalitarian past and once again embraced freedom and prosperity.


srothstein
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1796

Post by srothstein » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:54 am

philbo wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:07 am
4. “I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law.”
This is false. As part of its border crackdown, the Trump administration is separating undocumented immigrant children from their parents largely due to a “zero tolerance” policy implemented by Attorney General Jeff Sessions. No law requires these separations. The government must release rather than detain immigrant children under a 1997 federal consent decree and a bipartisan human trafficking law from 2008. But neither of these requires family separations. This could be ended with a call to DHS, stated Republican Lindsey Graham.
I disagree, at least in part. The law does require these separations. I agree that the separations are a result of the zero tolerance policy, which can be debated separately. But, when any adult is arrested, he or she must go to jail. Children (under 17 in Texas, under 18 in some states, I think under 18 for federal law) are not allowed to go to jail.They may be taken to various juvenile detention centers, but adults and juveniles are not allowed to be taken to the same criminal detention center. Along with this, males and females are also separated, in both adult and juvenile detention centers. Children may go to shelters together if they are not being criminally charged.

Yes, families could be detained together if they are being taken to a civil detention facility pending deportation. But under Sessions zero tolerance policy, the adults are being criminally charged with entering the US illegally. By law, the children MUST be separated from them, whether the children are being charged or not. The argument over the separation is, at best, a smokescreen for arguing whether we should be criminally charging people who break criminal laws by entering the country.

I have, and other police officers still do, separated children from their parents when I arrested the parents. If I could not get another family member to come get them, the children went to various shelters or to CPS (especially to CPS if the kids were victims of the crime). As a separate point that came to me as I typed this, Texas CPS has separated many more children from their parents than DHS has. And has a worse record of caring for them and the reasons for the separations.

To me, the arguments over separating the children from their parents are all a lie used to attack the president's actions since the left is realizing most Americans do not support illegal immigration as much as the left does. It is a way of getting the useful idiots involved and politically turned against the President.

And the arrests also prove one other point the left has been arguing for years is a lie. How many times have we heard that illegally entering the US is not a crime, but a civil offense? Sessions zero tolerance policy shows that it really is a crime that the people go to jail for.
Steve Rothstein


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philip964
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1797

Post by philip964 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:59 am

I remember a movie that was very popular during John F. Kennedy’s administration, it was called 7 Days in May.

A handsome young American President who wasn’t entirely popular with the military, was conspired against by an attempted military coup. The movie made it seem the impossible was almost easy.

Now 56 years later I feel I am witnessing a similar attempted coup, this time real, not a movie, not by the military with guns, but attempted by the Justice Department along with the FBI, not with guns, but with Judges and lawyers.

When I read the things that the FBI was caught texting, I can only imagine what they were saying behind closed doors.


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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1798

Post by bblhd672 » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:13 pm

philip964 wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:59 am
I remember a movie that was very popular during John F. Kennedy’s administration, it was called 7 Days in May.

A handsome young American President who wasn’t entirely popular with the military, was conspired against by an attempted military coup. The movie made it seem the impossible was almost easy.

Now 56 years later I feel I am witnessing a similar attempted coup, this time real, not a movie, not by the military with guns, but attempted by the Justice Department along with the FBI, not with guns, but with Judges and lawyers.

When I read the things that the FBI was caught texting, I can only imagine what they were saying behind closed doors.
Deep and wide
Deep and wide
There's a swamp bubbling deep and wide
Deep and wide
Deep and wide
There's a swamp bubbling deep and wide


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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1799

Post by philbo » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:34 pm

mojo84 wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 9:53 am
It's a fact based on reasoning and logic, not liberal logic and reasoning.
Dismissing something out of hand is not logical or fact based. Denial without a basis supporting such is not logical or fact based. Apologizing and accepting statements that are demonstrably untrue on their face are not logical or fact based. It is becoming common, but it should not be confused with reasoned logic.


philbo
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Re: Today in Trump's new term as President

#1800

Post by philbo » Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:48 pm

srothstein wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:54 am
philbo wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:07 am
4. “I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law.”
I disagree, at least in part. The law does require these separations. I agree that the separations are a result of the zero tolerance policy, which can be debated separately. But, when any adult is arrested, he or she must go to jail. Children (under 17 in Texas, under 18 in some states, I think under 18 for federal law) are not allowed to go to jail.They may be taken to various juvenile detention centers, but adults and juveniles are not allowed to be taken to the same criminal detention center. Along with this, males and females are also separated, in both adult and juvenile detention centers. Children may go to shelters together if they are not being criminally charged.

Yes, families could be detained together if they are being taken to a civil detention facility pending deportation. But under Sessions zero tolerance policy, the adults are being criminally charged with entering the US illegally. By law, the children MUST be separated from them, whether the children are being charged or not. The argument over the separation is, at best, a smokescreen for arguing whether we should be criminally charging people who break criminal laws by entering the country.

I have, and other police officers still do, separated children from their parents when I arrested the parents. If I could not get another family member to come get them, the children went to various shelters or to CPS (especially to CPS if the kids were victims of the crime). As a separate point that came to me as I typed this, Texas CPS has separated many more children from their parents than DHS has. And has a worse record of caring for them and the reasons for the separations.

To me, the arguments over separating the children from their parents are all a lie used to attack the president's actions since the left is realizing most Americans do not support illegal immigration as much as the left does. It is a way of getting the useful idiots involved and politically turned against the President.

And the arrests also prove one other point the left has been arguing for years is a lie. How many times have we heard that illegally entering the US is not a crime, but a civil offense? Sessions zero tolerance policy shows that it really is a crime that the people go to jail for.
I agree that the separations are now occurring as a result of the new zero tolerance policy. Right or wrong the officers are responding in the manner they have been told to enforce the law. Whether previous administrations enforced the law in this manner, right or wrong, is another question. But, it is not the democrats fault for this administration choice in enforcing this law as they are. trumps statements are at best misleading, and in my mind a retreat from a core conservative idea that we own the decisions we make. I understand why trump wants to pass the buck (the optics look bad), but the decision for this action is still his. I also understand that it is an attempt to curb illegal entry with children and/or prompt congress to address this as they perhaps should. But the gas-lighting by trump on this issue is most bothersome.

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