My Water Line Burst

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NotRPB
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#31

Post by NotRPB » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:07 am

if you don't use "slip repair couplings" (sharkbite/probite)

without "slip fitting, you'll probably need to use a four-Elbow method, for pvc or soldered copper

more detail on four Ell repair method (PVC example, but the 4-90s method apples to soldering copper etc
info>>> http://diyplumbingadvice.com/pipe/four90s.html

Video explains what order to attach the 4 ells (doing wrong order won't work)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdYTg3oDKfU

slip fit "bite" "SLIP fitting method" (NOT a coupling)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7mR2NS03YM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZIVueYA6bU
Last edited by NotRPB on Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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RPBrown
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#32

Post by RPBrown » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:18 am

I suspect that when you get down to the pipe that is ruptured, you may find more damage than you expect. Buried pipe in Texas shouldn't freeze to a point of rupture, even at 6"-8" deep unless we have a freeze of many days (7-10 or more) of sub-freezing temps and even then it would have to be below 25 or so degrees the entire time. It sounds like you had a section of pipe either rust through if steel pipe, or had a fitting separate with ground movement. I wish you the best of luck in your repair.
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#33

Post by swilkes » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:35 am

If they don’t have Cooper slip coupling you can make one with a file. Just file the inside of the copper stop/shoulder and slip it right on.


We normally burry them at 18” that’s the freeze line.


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imkopaka
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#34

Post by imkopaka » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:37 am

So here's what I found when I dug the hole. As you can see, a chunk fell off the bottom of the pipe, and the pipe itself is covered in a thick...I don't know, calcification? the outside looks like stone has grown on the pipe and fused with it. No way a fitting is getting on that. Should I chip/sand it down until I can get a fitting on there or am I out of luck, having to replace the whole pipe?
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#35

Post by treadlightly » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:49 am

We live on sandy ground, and have had buried line freeze in 30 degree weather. I know nobody else has that trouble, but if anything can go wrong with home systems, it will. At least for me.

Dripping the faucets is a cure-all for freezes around here - but beware the gremlins that turn the faucets back off.

My theory is the neoprene washer in the faucet slowly relaxes, expanding, once the drip is initiated. Every faucet I drip turns back off in about ten minutes. I always check back to see if the faucet is still dripping, but I may be unique in my troubles, there, too.


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Re: My Water Line Burst

#36

Post by imkopaka » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:54 am

Just chipped off the "stone" around the pipe. Took a hammer and chisel to get through it. I added 3 more pictures to the collection where you can actually see the rupture in the pipe, but...it doesn't look like a rupture. It looks like it's been eaten through after many, many years of disgusting water and stuff has been in/around it. I don't know if freezing did this. Some of the areas around the breach are paper thin. Does that mean this hole has been there for some time and the "stone" around it has been holding it together?
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imkopaka
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#37

Post by imkopaka » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:23 pm

Added some more pictures here.

Judging from the color of the pipe (and the difficulty I had sawing through it) it is not copper, but rather galvanized steel. It looks like it has been rusted through for some time. Some areas are so thin I can bend or break them with my fingers. I wish I had the money to replace the whole line, but there's just no way right now. Looks like I'll be addressing this spot only.
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#38

Post by 2farnorth » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:45 pm

Did someone encase cast pipe in concrete. mortar, etc... maybe a previous "epoxy repair"?
How far is it from the meter to the house? I'm afraid there are other sections of that pipe in similar condition. You may need to replace a lot of pipe.

edit;It is iron pipe. Now whether is galvanized or black iron I can't tell
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Excaliber
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#39

Post by Excaliber » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:34 pm

2farnorth wrote:Did someone encase cast pipe in concrete. mortar, etc... maybe a previous "epoxy repair"?
How far is it from the meter to the house? I'm afraid there are other sections of that pipe in similar condition. You may need to replace a lot of pipe.

edit;It is iron pipe. Now whether is galvanized or black iron I can't tell
I very much doubt galvanized pipe would deteriorate to the extent shown in the pictures. My bet is that you've got unprotected iron pipe.

It is highly likely your entire pipe run from the meter to the house looks like the section you dug up. Unfortunately, if you don't bite the bullet and replace the entire line, you'll very likely be doing this again and again. I suspect you will find you also don't have a choice - the corroded pipe won't form a good seal with any of the repair methods discussed here so far. They'll only work on dimensionally standard and structurally sound material.
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#40

Post by imkopaka » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:08 pm

Updated pictures again. I'm finished...such as it is.

Given the temporary nature of the repair, the guy at my local mom and pop hardware store recommended just using some PVC couplings and pipe. Said it would hold for a year or so. I've been out of work for six months, and am still looking, so there's no way I could replace the whole thing. I would have to destroy concrete, mess with the city meter, etc. I would have to get a professional. Maybe once I have income again I can get that done, but for the time being, the temp fix will have to do. It's not permanent, but it got the water back on for my family.

Thanks everyone for your help!

Also, to make a good seal I grabbed a metal file and ground down the outsides until smooth.
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#41

Post by NotRPB » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:45 pm

good looking Temporary patch,

I had a similar situation years ago when I lived in Pasadena. I had lots of those patches under my Pasadena house I discovered when I got around to replacing my line there (that house was built in the late 1930s/early 40s I think) Later I replaced the line with polybutylene (which didn't freeze, but now everyone uses PEX, which is way better)
A continuous roll of one piece of plastic pipe (3/4" is good and easy to connect to meter without a reducer if you have 3/4 galvenized now) will be "faster" than the corroded galvenized pipe and fittings every 20 feet it replaces, feeling like more water pressure. Dad said the shower hurt him (the city the next week replaced their 2" main with a 6" main on our street and it really did hurt)

Anyway TIP: if/when you replace the pipe with plastic (1 roll of PEX and 2 fittings, for meter and house connections- not much more work than you did today except more digging which could be done over time), lay a wire in the trench so it's easy to locate in the future if you need to (with metal detector etc)
... your plumber costs a lot to dig trenches ( I did that in the 1970s, sold plumbing supplies wholesale across Texas and later hired on with a plumbing company and dug trenches for a plumbing company [quit the digging job after 2 weeks])

I don't know the distance from water meter to house, but $70 or so for a 100' of the 3/4 pipe, plus 2 fittings PEX to galvanized... the tough part for me was digging a little every day

PEX may be cheaper elsewhere, I just randomly Googled it, PEX uses the Sharkbite/ProBite fittings
https://www.supplyhouse.com/AquaPEX-Tubing-517000

FAQs on PEX http://www.sharkbite.com/resources/faqs/pex-tubing/

More PEX stuff ( I learned about PEX about a month after redoing LOTS of copper with soldering etc, I called a plumber, they wanted $3,000 and he slipped and said he'd do it with PEX for $3,000 ,,, I soldered the copper myself, but I'm done soldering ... when for $100 I could do it myself with PEX ) ... https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... U4iILmHzNQ

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Excaliber
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#42

Post by Excaliber » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:20 am

NotRPB wrote:good looking Temporary patch,

I had a similar situation years ago when I lived in Pasadena. I had lots of those patches under my Pasadena house I discovered when I got around to replacing my line there (that house was built in the late 1930s/early 40s I think) Later I replaced the line with polybutylene (which didn't freeze, but now everyone uses PEX, which is way better)
A continuous roll of one piece of plastic pipe (3/4" is good and easy to connect to meter without a reducer if you have 3/4 galvenized now) will be "faster" than the corroded galvenized pipe and fittings every 20 feet it replaces, feeling like more water pressure. Dad said the shower hurt him (the city the next week replaced their 2" main with a 6" main on our street and it really did hurt)

Anyway TIP: if/when you replace the pipe with plastic (1 roll of PEX and 2 fittings, for meter and house connections- not much more work than you did today except more digging which could be done over time), lay a wire in the trench so it's easy to locate in the future if you need to (with metal detector etc)
... your plumber costs a lot to dig trenches ( I did that in the 1970s, sold plumbing supplies wholesale across Texas and later hired on with a plumbing company and dug trenches for a plumbing company [quit the digging job after 2 weeks])

I don't know the distance from water meter to house, but $70 or so for a 100' of the 3/4 pipe, plus 2 fittings PEX to galvanized... the tough part for me was digging a little every day

PEX may be cheaper elsewhere, I just randomly Googled it, PEX uses the Sharkbite/ProBite fittings
https://www.supplyhouse.com/AquaPEX-Tubing-517000

FAQs on PEX http://www.sharkbite.com/resources/faqs/pex-tubing/

More PEX stuff ( I learned about PEX about a month after redoing LOTS of copper with soldering etc, I called a plumber, they wanted $3,000 and he slipped and said he'd do it with PEX for $3,000 ,,, I soldered the copper myself, but I'm done soldering ... when for $100 I could do it myself with PEX ) ... https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... U4iILmHzNQ
In the FAQ's from the website you provided, it states that PEX is not approved for outdoor applications.
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#43

Post by Excaliber » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:21 am

NotRPB wrote:good looking Temporary patch,

I had a similar situation years ago when I lived in Pasadena. I had lots of those patches under my Pasadena house I discovered when I got around to replacing my line there (that house was built in the late 1930s/early 40s I think) Later I replaced the line with polybutylene (which didn't freeze, but now everyone uses PEX, which is way better)
A continuous roll of one piece of plastic pipe (3/4" is good and easy to connect to meter without a reducer if you have 3/4 galvenized now) will be "faster" than the corroded galvenized pipe and fittings every 20 feet it replaces, feeling like more water pressure. Dad said the shower hurt him (the city the next week replaced their 2" main with a 6" main on our street and it really did hurt)

Anyway TIP: if/when you replace the pipe with plastic (1 roll of PEX and 2 fittings, for meter and house connections- not much more work than you did today except more digging which could be done over time), lay a wire in the trench so it's easy to locate in the future if you need to (with metal detector etc)
... your plumber costs a lot to dig trenches ( I did that in the 1970s, sold plumbing supplies wholesale across Texas and later hired on with a plumbing company and dug trenches for a plumbing company [quit the digging job after 2 weeks])

I don't know the distance from water meter to house, but $70 or so for a 100' of the 3/4 pipe, plus 2 fittings PEX to galvanized... the tough part for me was digging a little every day

PEX may be cheaper elsewhere, I just randomly Googled it, PEX uses the Sharkbite/ProBite fittings
https://www.supplyhouse.com/AquaPEX-Tubing-517000

FAQs on PEX http://www.sharkbite.com/resources/faqs/pex-tubing/

More PEX stuff ( I learned about PEX about a month after redoing LOTS of copper with soldering etc, I called a plumber, they wanted $3,000 and he slipped and said he'd do it with PEX for $3,000 ,,, I soldered the copper myself, but I'm done soldering ... when for $100 I could do it myself with PEX ) ... https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... U4iILmHzNQ
In the FAQ's from the website you provided, it states that PEX is not approved for outdoor applications.
Excaliber

"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.


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imkopaka
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#44

Post by imkopaka » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:52 am

Excaliber wrote:
In the FAQ's from the website you provided, it states that PEX is not approved for outdoor applications.
I've read from other places that underground usage is fine. The reasoning is that UV exposure causes rapid deterioration, but if it's underground that's not an issue.
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Re: My Water Line Burst

#45

Post by troglodyte » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:54 am

As mentioned you need to get the water out of the pipe as it will be a huge heat sink as it evaporates. If it is PVC then you'll have to make sure the pipe is dry (although they make glues that work with a little water). Another trick I learned for those pesky drips or very small trickles that you just can't get rid of is to stuff bread into the pipes. The bread absorbs the water, expands, and will hold the water for a short period of time until the bread breaks down. How much bread to stuff into the pipes and how far is a quick learning curve and determines how fast you have to work. Sometimes you just have to keep stuffing in bread until you finish. I generally tried not to us the crust as it doesn't absorb water as well and tends to leak. When finished open up the outside hydrant on the house. It should be inline with the water line. This will allow the soggy bread to blow out before it gets to your faucet aerators or in your shower head.
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