Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

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Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#1

Post by surprise_i'm_armed » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:46 pm

Self driving (autonomous) vehicles give me the creeps. Supposedly the computer
programming gods have factored in EVERY conceivable scenario involved in driving,
so we, the unwashed masses, are supposed to buy into this.

First let me list some of the negative anecdotes SO FAR, with self driving vehicles.

1. Florida. A Tesla driver from Ohio was letting the car do the driving while he was
allegedly watching a movie on his DVD player. A tractor trailer failed to yield the right
of way, and did either a left turn or a U-turn in front of the Tesla. The Tesla ran under
the trailer, ripping the roof off, and decapitating its "driver".

Cause of crash: It was an overcast day, with gray skies. The 18 wheeler's trailer was white,
and the Tesla system could not tell the difference between the cloudy sky and the white trailer.

2. An auto test writer was driving an auto that had automatic braking. He was going 70 MPH
or so, in California, negotiating a long curve. The automobile "saw" a tractor trailer in the right
hand lane, which was being passed by the auto writer. The system incorrectly assumed a collision
and jammed on the brakes, totally freaking out the auto writer.

3. China - A Chinese man driving a <Tesla?> was driving on the highway and crashed into a street
sweeper on the side of the road. This killed the auto driver. It's unknown any more details of this one.

4. Las Vegas, NV - A new vehicle shuttle holding 8 people was put into service, and was in a collision
in its 2nd hour of service. Spokespeople said that that human driver of a truck was the cause of the
collision, not the self-driver. Well, how many times a week do we take evasive action to miss someone,
or simply beep our horns. This happened on a slow speed city street.

5. An auto writer was driving <some brand of self-driver>. It was looking at the stripes in the road,
to keep the vehicle centered. All of a sudden the road was freshly blacktopped, without stripes,
and warned the person to take control of the vehicle. This sounds nerve-wracking.

*************************************************************************************************************************

Although the self driving tech people are quite enamored with their toys, what I want to know is how is
the federal government, or the car companies, going to force these vehicles to be purchased?

I don't think I'm alone when I think of all the people who may be killed because the tech boys and girls
didn't program "that unlikely scenario" into their vehicles.

And what if the feds decide that to save fuel in some future crisis, to shut off our vehicle use?

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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#2

Post by bobby » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:31 pm

simple Feds outlaw sales of new manual drive cars, via the Commerce clause... Machine Guns IE...
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#3

Post by RottenApple » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:32 pm

It will happen gradually and you won't have a choice. As the tech gets better and better (and it really is improving), eventually one manufacturer after another will offer it as an option on all vehicles. Then it will become standard on all vehicles, but has to be enabled by the driver. Next up is that the auto-drive system will automatically take over if a threat (dangerous conditions, possible collision, etc) is sensed. And finally, it will be mandated that the systems be enabled full time for "safety".


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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#4

Post by strogg » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:37 pm

Good point. Cars nowadays all require some sort of computerized traction control, along with backup cameras (effective this year), and a plethora of other safety features. At some point in the future, those mandates will include more features that will essentially render your vehicle autonomous.

In a way, we already have a butt load of quasi autonomous vehicles on the road. Ford, Volvo, Mercedes, etc have options on their vehicles like lazy cruise control, accident avoidance (brakes for you in the event of an obstacle in front of you) and lane guidance. Turn those on, and you'll be able to sleep the couple hundred miles on IH-45 from Dallas to Houston without crashing... theoretically.

To play devil's advocate on the self-driving-cars-are-bad thing, the Google Lexus in CA was considered ridiculously safe. It had a much better safety record than the average American driver. And this is over hundreds of thousands of autonomous miles. That's saying something.

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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#5

Post by pbwalker » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:01 pm

I'll ride a bike before I ever "get behind the wheel" of an autonomous vehicle. It's not a safety thing for me, but more of an overreach & control thing.
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#6

Post by OneGun » Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:31 pm

Another front for terrorists. Hacking cars and causing mass fatalities.

Nope, not gonna purchase, own or operate such a vehicle.
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#7

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:01 pm

Even pilots take control away from the autopilot when complex evolutions are required.
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#8

Post by Beiruty » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:15 am

No government would force you to buy anything, unless if there was a tax credit for it. You need to ask the SCOTUS why the government can give you a tax credit for anything you buy.

Back to the OP. Sooner or later, Auto-robots are safer the 90% of the US drivers.
My 2018 Ridgeline has Auto brake, auto Accelerate and limited auto-steering at the HW speeds (45+ MPH). I can venture to drive hands free for like 1 minute or 2 before Lawyers at Honda HQ get involved and start flashing... wake up man, you need to keep driving this honda.

On the other hand, all so called driver-assist tools can be deactivated at will for as long as you wish.


You will get used to it. Just watch i-robots again

https://youtu.be/Ouht1xip9NQ
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#9

Post by crazy2medic » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:06 am

It's all fun and games until your car turns into a 10ft+ android with an obsession to remove the human infestation from the planet to stop global warming!
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#10

Post by couzin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:21 am

Nope - I still like driving too much. Nothing like slinging an MGB into a turn and feeling those 92 horses 'power' you down the straight! Could be that I am just getting old and/or mistrustful of just what a computer can analyze. Sometimes, the options are limited to where to crash and what is going to be the softest target. I just don't believe that bit of brain power can be programmed into a car.
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#11

Post by MechAg94 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:36 am

Driving is a privilege or so they say.

I figure they will start with requiring it in certain lanes or certain roads. People who commute every day or go out on long trips will do it to because it is easier whether or not they get there faster. It will take a lot of time, but eventually it will happen as new cars replace old cars. There will always be older cars without it, but they may say those cars have to stay off highways or other roads. I doubt they would outlaw older trucks and cars since there are always farm trucks and poorer people who can't afford new vehicles. Saying they have to stay off interstate highways or major freeways is easier.

The biggest advantage I can see is something like a long trip where you are driving a few hours down the interstate highway. It would be nice to be able to set it on autopilot and then sit back and read or something. Even if things like passing were done in manual, it would be nice for some situations.

The biggest disadvantage is cars and trucks don't go through the same level of maintenance as aircraft. I would expect an additional set of Engine Trouble lights for the sensors and controls. Also, this won't eliminate ALL traffic accidents.


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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#12

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:43 am

This fancy new technology scares me. Give me my horse and buggy.

Seriously, though I agree with the sentiments above that the technology will continue to improve, and acceptance of it will continue to grow. After all, the other alternative (human drivers) isn't exactly setting a high bar, safety wise. Eventually, driverless vehicles will be the standard, and then the only option. That last step may not happen while we are still driving, though.
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#13

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:33 pm

If fed dot gov is behind it you can guarantee it is a bad idea.
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#14

Post by Vol Texan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:23 pm

I don't currently embrace this technology, but I could see a situation where it could be (slowly) implemented safely. Here in Houston, I live out on the west side of town. Right down the middle of I-10, we have the four managed lanes of traffic. If you enter those, you'll either be paying a toll or you'll qualify as an HOV, negating the tolls.

Every couple of miles, there is a toll booth. Left lane is free (HOV) and right lane is pay (non-HOV toll road). However, the idiots that are HOV believe that since they will need to pass the toll booth in the left lane several miles from now, they should stay in that lane the whole time. Idiots, indeed, and they impede traffic flow.

I could imagine (and actually agree with) a situation where one day they decide that these managed lanes are for self-driving cars only. No entry for 'normal cars', and once you enter this part of the road, it must be auto-driving. Once you depart the managed lanes, you are free to return to commanding your own vehicle.

In that limited situation, I'd probably like riding in that lane. Fewer left-lane hoggers (my biggest peeve on the road), and a smoother flow of traffic. If they'd then continue that lane all the way into downtown Houston (or at least the option to stay in that lane), that would be great. The congestion in the limited area of downtown could also be eased if 100% of the cars were self-driving.

I guess that's where I draw the line. Self driving-only lanes or areas would be enough for me to try it out willingly.

Unfortunately, I doubt I'll be given the option, and eventually, it will be forced upon all of us, as the OP opined.

I guess that when they force-feed us, it'll be time to buy a motorcycle again. I doubt they can require them to be self-driving.
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Re: Self driving vehicles creep me out. How will feds mandate purchases?

#15

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:47 pm

Vol Texan wrote:I don't currently embrace this technology, but I could see a situation where it could be (slowly) implemented safely. Here in Houston, I live out on the west side of town. Right down the middle of I-10, we have the four managed lanes of traffic. If you enter those, you'll either be paying a toll or you'll qualify as an HOV, negating the tolls.

Every couple of miles, there is a toll booth. Left lane is free (HOV) and right lane is pay (non-HOV toll road). However, the idiots that are HOV believe that since they will need to pass the toll booth in the left lane several miles from now, they should stay in that lane the whole time. Idiots, indeed, and they impede traffic flow.

I could imagine (and actually agree with) a situation where one day they decide that these managed lanes are for self-driving cars only. No entry for 'normal cars', and once you enter this part of the road, it must be auto-driving. Once you depart the managed lanes, you are free to return to commanding your own vehicle.

In that limited situation, I'd probably like riding in that lane. Fewer left-lane hoggers (my biggest peeve on the road), and a smoother flow of traffic. If they'd then continue that lane all the way into downtown Houston (or at least the option to stay in that lane), that would be great. The congestion in the limited area of downtown could also be eased if 100% of the cars were self-driving.

I guess that's where I draw the line. Self driving-only lanes or areas would be enough for me to try it out willingly.

Unfortunately, I doubt I'll be given the option, and eventually, it will be forced upon all of us, as the OP opined.

I guess that when they force-feed us, it'll be time to buy a motorcycle again. I doubt they can require them to be self-driving.
The smaller the space between each vehicle, the less congestion. If all vehicles were self driving, and the technology was perfected, then in theory, "self driving only" lanes could handle a much greater traffic flow, at higher speeds, than "human driver" lanes. This would improve the commutes of every driver, even if you are not using the technology / special lanes.

If the government really wanted to implement this, they could accelerate the adoption through a combination of higher speeds in the "self driving only" lanes, no tolls, and tax credits on the vehicle purchases. Southern California would probably be on the leading edge for a variety of reasons.
Ding dong, the witch is dead

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