My Leftist Son....! ? !

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#31

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:47 pm

RoyGBiv wrote:
rotor wrote:This is a phase of youth and hopefully with age comes wisdom. Even I was a liberal when I was at that age. Don't give up.
I was about to post exactly this.

My oldest is in college currently. There was a couple years in HS when I felt the same way as the OP (love, not like), but things are better now than ever. As the changes in the relationship create distance, be sure to keep the lines of communication open. Don't push him away. Just let him have his distance. I didn't really recover from college liberalism until I got my first professional job and saw how much I was paying to run the government and pay for other people who didn't work. And pay for social security that I expect never to see.

Spend time with your spouse and others that bring you joy, but remain open to whatever communication he wants to have, as long as it's not just looking for cash.. :mrgreen:
My son went from being a conservative to being a libertarian. He’s never known what it is to be a liberal - other than by observation of others.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy

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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#32

Post by puma guy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:02 pm

My definition of wisdom (probably not unique) : "The realization that every thing your father told you back when you already knew everything is true!"
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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#33

Post by SQLGeek » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:15 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: My son went from being a conservative to being a libertarian. He’s never known what it is to be a liberal - other than by observation of others.
I went through a similar evolution. I was raised by hardcore conservative parents in the SF Bay Area so I was already a rarity. I went to one of the more conservative leaning public universities in CA but was still a political minority. I survived college unbrainwashed ( :biggrinjester: ) and dug my feet in against the increasingly shift leftism in CA.

After moving to TX, I began to realize my ideals tended more toward the personal freedom libertarian bent.

I will say this, most of my extended family hard hardcore leftists and if I shunned them due to those differences, I wouldn't have much if any family to stay in touch with.
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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#34

Post by MaduroBU » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:21 pm

The core tenet of socialism is "execute everyone who disagrees with you." Widespread civilian ownership of firearms interferes with that goal.


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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#35

Post by JRG » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:47 pm

carlson1 wrote:I don’t have one that has left the 2A, but they have left church and the fundamentals they were taught. My youngest seldom even takes his family and attends church. I have learned to live with a broken heart so far. Praying you find middle ground.
Carl,

Your story is an exact copy of mine. We raised two girls in the Baptist Church. One has turned out wonderful, goes to church regularly and raises her two young girls in the church. She communicates with us regularly and invites us over whenever we are in town.

The other daughter rarely communicates with us and has not attended church in years. She is raising her two kids the same way. They have no moral compass. She rarely allows us to visit for fear we will contaminate them. She is fiercely anti gun too. I, too, have learned to live with a broken heart. I continue to pray nightly for their salvation and protection.

Joe

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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#36

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:56 am

JRG wrote:
carlson1 wrote:I don’t have one that has left the 2A, but they have left church and the fundamentals they were taught. My youngest seldom even takes his family and attends church. I have learned to live with a broken heart so far. Praying you find middle ground.
Carl,

Your story is an exact copy of mine. We raised two girls in the Baptist Church. One has turned out wonderful, goes to church regularly and raises her two young girls in the church. She communicates with us regularly and invites us over whenever we are in town.

The other daughter rarely communicates with us and has not attended church in years. She is raising her two kids the same way. They have no moral compass. She rarely allows us to visit for fear we will contaminate them. She is fiercely anti gun too. I, too, have learned to live with a broken heart. I continue to pray nightly for their salvation and protection.

Joe
Man, my heart breaks for you guys. I was not raised in the church and did not come to faith until my early 40s. In fact, I was for most of that time, prior to coming to faith, a life-long liberal - having been raised by hardcore liberal parents. My son’s faith followed my own by about 2 years, when he was 6 years old. There have been times when he was less inclined to want to go to church than others - for many of the same reasons that it became undesirable to hug his dad at a certain age - but he has never strayed away from his actual faith. Today, he and his wife and kids all live under the same roof with my wife and me ..... the four of us deliberately bought a big house together for that reason last fall ..... and his wife is a solid believer too, and that is how their kids are being raised. Only time will tell if my grandkids will remain faithful, and it would break my heart if they do not. But we’ve given them every opportunity, and they are still at an age where their primary socialization outside of family is at church, so time will tell.

But, you should know (and probably do) that being a Christian is not any kind of a guarantee of also being conservative. There are several active members of my church who are pretty liberal politically - including being heavily in favor of gun control and anti-NRA. Their views are out of step with the majority of the members. And I am not even close to being the only libertarian-leaning member. I’ve often described myself (tongue firmly planted in cheek) as a “Liberative Conservatarian” - meaning that while I am personally conservative in the way I live my private life and in my personal morality, my highest political value is the liberty of the individual. It is that last part that I find clashes with a blind allegiance to the GOP, and it is why I stopped identifying as a republican in 2012. I do no think that the GOP is either conservative, or libertarian-leaning. They pay nothing more than lip service to individual liberty, but in practice, they are almost uniformly big-government types. What being a “Liberative Conservatarian” looks like is this - taking gay marriage for instance as an example..... Personally, I think it is (A) icky, and (B) unbiblical and spiritually unhealthy. That is my personal outlook and morality talking. BUT..... we have a Declaration of Independence which proclaims, among other things, “the pursuit of happiness” as one leg of its three-legged stool of liberty; and we have a Constitution which is supposed to protect - equally - the rights of the individual. As distasteful as gay marriage is to me, I can’t find a constitutional reason for banning it. So, the way I blend that with my faith is this: we live in a fallen world, full of fallen people, all born sinners and in need of God’s grace, and all in need of Jesus.....myself included. My sins are between me and God. The sins of others are between them and God. No amount of laws are going to stop people from sinning, and the Constitution guarantees that someone else does not have to live by my religious code .....unless they WANT to.

Believe me..... getting to that point was an evolution, some of which has taken place since I first became a member of this forum. I was a MUCH more conservative and much less libertarian person back then than I am now. I think I have found my stasis. My son, on the other hand, came to Texas at age 16; so his personal political journey was more or less just beginning when he got here. He was personally conservative, but not yet politically formed, and much of what he would have said back then was simply parroting what his father would have said. The libertarian-leaning brand of conservatism in Texas is a much bigger presence here than back in California, and so he has begun his political journey from that viewpoint, rather than evolving into it the way I did. But the important thing is that we both got to the same outlook at about the same time, so there isn’t that much that we disagree about. I like it that he’s man enough to stand up for his differences of opinion without escalating it into a fight, so sometimes we just agree to disagree. But that’s actually fairly rare.

I really sincerely hope for those of you whose children are so out of step with you, that they will come around and begin thinking with their brains instead of their hearts.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy

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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#37

Post by thatguyoverthere » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:45 am

I feel the pain that some of you have expressed. I have a similar situation, though not nearly as bad as some mentioned here.

I'm pretty conservative, and seem to get more that way the older I get. However, the older of my two sons is pretty liberal in his thinking. But fortunately, we're still on good terms with each other. We don't have any major issues, just have some differences of opinion about some things.

I noticed him first starting to express some of those views in his college years. No surprise there. I didn't worry about it too much then, figuring he would straighten out once he got out of that environment and started making his own way. I worried about it even less when he joined the Army after college, thinking that's a VERY conservative organization.

However, after 8 years in the Army, with multiple tours to both Iraq and Afghanistan, then two more one-year tours back to Afghanistan as a contractor, somehow now he seems to be MORE lefty than ever! (I credit some of that attitude to his Yankee wife that he met and married while in the Army, too).

He and I were tallking one day not long ago, and I was complaining that my property taxes just keep going up and up substantially every year. He allowed as how I should be happy to pay my taxes! Didn't I realize all the great programs and benefits that people receive from all the different government programs? It ended up somewhere along the line of: "Why, we just couldn't survive without all the benefits our government gives us!" (Of course, he's always lived in Army housing or rented, so he's never paid any property taxes directly). Anyway, I realized then that he was too far gone, so I didn't even bother to argue with him.

Another recent, and slightly more hurtful situation, came about shortly after I purchased a new AR-15 this past summer. Since it was my first AR, and it was similar to the M4 he carried in the Army, I figured he might enjoy shooting it, and also giving me a quick little short-course on it for my benefit. So he did shoot it, and did seem to enjoy giving me the run down on it. So it was all good there. Until later we were talking, and he allowed as how he didn't think that "civilians" should be able to own an AR. I gently reminded him that this was not an M4, this is a semi-automatic AR. He said yep, but still didn't think that civilians should own one. I said something to the effect that it's legal, I own one, and that's that. Then changed the subject.

Fortunately, we get along fine. Just have some different opinions. Even though he's almost 40 years old, I still have hope that he will figure it out. Even at that age, he's really just now getting out on his own, so to speak. Years of college, then years in the Army, then years overseas as a contractor, he and his Yankee wife always moving, so always renting a house, never owning anything other than a couple of cars. He's really just now starting to get into an independent life. They are just now starting to look to purchase their first home, and he's just now about to start his first "real" private job (as what else - a county social worker). So maybe he'll figure it out - or maybe he won't. Hey, I can dream, right?

Anyway, I feel for you guys that are struggling with really broken relationships. I hope it will get better for you eventually. Just keep praying.

For those of you with young kids at home that your are still raising, I guess a word of advice from someone who would like to have done things differently. I didn't really "teach" my kids my views. I guess I just assumed that they would see that the way our family did things was the "correct" way, and that they would do the same when they grew up. So my advice to you with young kids at home would be to actively teach your kids your views. Always take the time to actually explain the things you believe, and why you believe that way - whether it's your religion, or social leanings, or political views, or whatever views and opinions that you want your kid to have like you do when they grow up. There's still no guarantee that they will embrace all (or any) of those views, but at least they will have a better understanding, maybe.

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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#38

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:59 am

thatguyoverthere wrote:......he and his Yankee wife always moving, so always renting a house, never owning anything other than a couple of cars. He's really just now starting to get into an independent life. They are just now starting to look to purchase their first home, and he's just now about to start his first "real" private job (as what else - a county social worker). So maybe he'll figure it out - or maybe he won't. Hey, I can dream, right?
I think you’ve hit on something here. My own son did not enlist and serve, and he insisted on leaving home at age 19 or 20 and making his own way. He and his wife rented for a while, but they bought their first home together in 2011 or 2012. She left home at a young age too. Both of them bought cars on their own nickel and figured out their own financing, insurance, etc. Admittedly, the down payment on their first home was aided by a small cash gift from my mother, but other than that, they’ve done it all on their own. Between them, they are now earning a little over $100K, and they both have good jobs with bennies. The home we purchased together with them last fall is their second home. We sold our Grapevine home (which we owned outright) and put 100% of the net into the new house, and my son and DIL took out a $180K mortgage on the balance.

Other than a couple of years renting apartments, they’ve owned everything they’ve paid for; and paid taxes on most of it; and I believe that makes a difference in how they view gov’t.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy


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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#39

Post by twomillenium » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:20 pm

I have seen this with some of my friends, I thank the Good Lord for my blessings. I have always loved my sons as you have, but there were times I did not like them much. Fortunately, as they got older, we could talk without demanding agreement. I found that when we could talk about reasons instead of excuses that we actually agreed, but we had different approaches.
Continue to love him, but withdraw financial support for things that you cannot live with. I pray he will listen to God and do what is in his heart and not what man has duped him with.
Remember, thoughts and beliefs change throughout time, but he will be your son forever.

BTW, some of the best conservatives are those who have seen and lived the liberal side and realized that it is a path to destruction for the free man.
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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#40

Post by JustSomeOldGuy » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:55 pm

Y'all giving me a Twain flashback
“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.” ― Mark Twain
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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#41

Post by crazy2medic » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:00 pm

“Show me a young conservative and I’ll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old liberal and I’ll show you someone with no brains.”
- Winston Churchill
I Have been accused of having no heart so this maybe true, I have been a staunch conservative all my life, In civics class in High School I argued with my bleeding heart teacher eveyday, I was pretty sure I would fail that class and the end of the Trimester I was presented with an A+, I asked her why, she informed me I was the only A+ in her class because I was the only one that actively participated in class! Both my children are conservative, my 29yo daughter seem to have a pinch of liberal but not dominated by it, my 25yo son sounds like me and he sells guns for a living so I lucked out I guess,neither of my children have gone to college!
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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#42

Post by Diesel42 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:13 pm

I am reminded of something said to me my first year at A&M,
"Don't let school get in the way of your education."

At the time I thought it was nonsense, almost 40 years later I know that statement is true wisdom.
'nuff said, amen.
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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#43

Post by Rex B » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:34 pm

As the old saw goes "If you are not a liberal when you are 20 you have no heart. If you are still a liberal at 40, you have no brain."
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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#44

Post by EastTexasRancher » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:05 pm

Thank you all for your words, experiences, advice, and stories. It seems I am not alone.

I've summoned him home for the weekend, to "talk about life" 62 days ahead of his graduation and next steps in the world. I even sent him an email outlining the agenda of conversations I want to have. As I shared my plans with a dear friend, my friend replied "you'd be doing him a disservice to not share your feelings....you KNOW your father would have done the same".

I'll come from a position of love, experience, and at this point, at lease partial financial investor in his future.

A prayer or two for wisdom and patience would be appreciated. No names needed, God knows who we are.

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Re: My Leftist Son....! ? !

#45

Post by carlson1 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:19 pm

Prayers sent.
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