Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

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rotor
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#16

Post by rotor » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:38 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
rotor wrote:Grundy1133, I know you are relatively new here but I think you need to get some legal books about LTC and what you can and should not do in anytime you are involved with a LEO contact or worse, a shooting incident. I believe a lawyer would tell you to shut up and not give any info beyond the minimum and not consent to searches. Actually, this is not just for LTC but any police-citizen interaction. There is always the urge to talk (look at Trump saying he wants to talk to Mueller) but then there are smart lawyers telling one to shut up. You really need to know your legal rights a little better from what I have seen about your posts. I am not saying this in a derogatory manner but I am trying to be helpful.
It seems kind of borderline paranoid conspiracy theory mentality lol. I understand if you're involved in a shooting to keep your mouth shut. don't volunteer info etc. but if a LEO says "do this" as long as its not something illegal, you do it otherwise things could get out of control and you'd end up in cuffs. And if it's in violation of your rights, then you take action. like if a LEO asks if he can see your ID and you say no and then he says GIVE me your ID. do it. If you don't do it and he says step out of the car and you refuse, then I'm sure you'd end up in cuffs... just do what the LEO says and then afterward do something about it if he/she has violated your rights... I don't see how this is "sheeple" mentality. its just being smart. do what they say and take action afterward so you can avoid having handcuffs thrown on you.
Paranoid? Borderline? I don't think so. I refuse to get into name calling with you. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation (a crime) the LEO can ask for ID and ask you to step out of the car and arrest you if need be. I did not call you sheepie. Someone else did. You have a lot to learn though and like I said, time to start hitting the books.

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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#17

Post by Grundy1133 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:46 pm

rotor wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
rotor wrote:Grundy1133, I know you are relatively new here but I think you need to get some legal books about LTC and what you can and should not do in anytime you are involved with a LEO contact or worse, a shooting incident. I believe a lawyer would tell you to shut up and not give any info beyond the minimum and not consent to searches. Actually, this is not just for LTC but any police-citizen interaction. There is always the urge to talk (look at Trump saying he wants to talk to Mueller) but then there are smart lawyers telling one to shut up. You really need to know your legal rights a little better from what I have seen about your posts. I am not saying this in a derogatory manner but I am trying to be helpful.
It seems kind of borderline paranoid conspiracy theory mentality lol. I understand if you're involved in a shooting to keep your mouth shut. don't volunteer info etc. but if a LEO says "do this" as long as its not something illegal, you do it otherwise things could get out of control and you'd end up in cuffs. And if it's in violation of your rights, then you take action. like if a LEO asks if he can see your ID and you say no and then he says GIVE me your ID. do it. If you don't do it and he says step out of the car and you refuse, then I'm sure you'd end up in cuffs... just do what the LEO says and then afterward do something about it if he/she has violated your rights... I don't see how this is "sheeple" mentality. its just being smart. do what they say and take action afterward so you can avoid having handcuffs thrown on you.
Paranoid? Borderline? I don't think so. I refuse to get into name calling with you. If you are pulled over for a traffic violation (a crime) the LEO can ask for ID and ask you to step out of the car and arrest you if need be. I did not call you sheepie. Someone else did. You have a lot to learn though and like I said, time to start hitting the books.
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#18

Post by E.Marquez » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:06 pm

twomillenium wrote:The mentality that "you have nothing to worry about if you are doing nothing illegal" comes from the mindset of sheeple.
Ignoring your attempt at belittling fellow members for now, I also happen to think your way off base, at least for me personally.
My mindset of I have nothing to worry becuase I am not doing nothing illegal is what puts me at ease when I'm stopped, and I assure you, I'm anything but your insult of "sheeple".

Playing indignant guy during a stop is adolecent at best. They can ask the passange for ID, the passanger can say no thank you and that is all it needs to be...Or you can go in to I know my rights guy and see where that gets you.

They can ask the driver to search, every cop I know tells me, they ask even when they already have PC because it looks better if the case goes to a DA.

So yes they all seem to ask, the driver is free to say no, if they already had PC as Im told they often do, the car is getting searched anyway. If they do not have PC, again from what I have seen personally and what Im told by cops, thats the end of it unless they really do think there is cause and they just need to continue the contact to establish it better before forcing the search.

None of that is being a sheeple nor am I saying give away rights....But a polite no thank you works, so getting all up in arms about how you say no is just petty.
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#19

Post by Grundy1133 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:24 pm

Also before any mods give me an earful about being [insert offensive adjective here] to others on the forum, I was just having a bit of fun. Nothing was meant to be name calling or personal. it just reminded me of someone i used to work with who always thought the govt was out to get him and always said never trust cops etc. :P
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#20

Post by twomillenium » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:28 pm

montgomery wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
rotor wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:My mentality is if you aren't doing anything illegal you shouldn't have anything to worry about. A buddy of mine got pulled over once (we were teenagers) and I didn't have my ID on me and the LEO asked for my ID and I told him I didn't have one and he just said "ok" and went about his business. I imagine he asked for my ID too cause we were teenagers and he wanted to know who we were and what we were up to (we were going to wal mart to buy food from the deli lol). This practice has been going on for awhile cause that was 15 years ago and i imagineits been going on for even longer than that.
I can not agree with your mentality on that. First, you can always be found to be doing something illegal. I would never give any information not required by law. The last time I was stopped by LEO they did not ask for my passenger's ID. We wouldn't have given it either. They ran my ID.

I am always surprised watching the cop shows how they ask if we can search your car and the occupants say sure. They should say no but that's television.

The worst thing you can do is to think that you have "nothing to worry about as you are not doing anything illegal".
if you say no to the car search that prompts "Probable Cause" and they'll do it anyway... at least in my experience that's how it's always worked... however my car is so messy if they wanna search it, im all for it as lon gas they trow away all the trash while theyre doing it. :lol: :lol:
That is so wrong, it does NOT prompt "Probable Cause". I have been asked 3 time in my life and all three times, I politely say, "I don't mind at all if you don't mind me asking/requiring a search warrant." All three times, they did not search, which shows me they did not have a fishing license.
well that's how it's been in my experience... which was once and it wasnt my car. like i mentioned tho if it WAS my car I guarantee they wouldnt ask to search it haha :lol:
If that was your experience, then that is a shame. The mentality that "you have nothing to worry about if you are doing nothing illegal" comes from the mindset of sheeple.
How do you justify the rude, judgmental, unjustified "sheeple" reference? LEO politely asks a passenger for ID and complying is sheeple?
It is up to the citizen on how far they wish to comply, if it is something that they have a choice in, then it is their choice. If it is to illegally ignore a legal command then it is still their choice, but that may come with consequence. IMNSHO, to give up rights because you think that you don't have them, (when you do) is the behavior of "sheeple". Giving up rights that you want to give up is a personal decision and does not qualify as "sheeple".
I am kinda of disappointed that when stating what the sheeple mindset is, that I get accused of calling names. If read, the post it just states what a sheeple mindset is. (among other things) The only ones that should be offended would be a sheeple. So my apologies to the nonsheeples and sheepdogs. (hope I don't have to explain that)

If sheeple get all upset over the fact that they are sheeple, then I guess it is well within their rights to be offended with the other sheeple.
Life is good and that's all I have to say about that. (for now) :tiphat:
Last edited by twomillenium on Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#21

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:29 pm

E.Marquez wrote:
twomillenium wrote:The mentality that "you have nothing to worry about if you are doing nothing illegal" comes from the mindset of sheeple.
Ignoring your attempt at belittling fellow members for now, I also happen to think your way off base, at least for me personally.
My mindset of I have nothing to worry becuase I am not doing nothing illegal is what puts me at ease when I'm stopped, and I assure you, I'm anything but your insult of "sheeple".

Playing indignant guy during a stop is adolecent at best. They can ask the passange for ID, the passanger can say no thank you and that is all it needs to be...Or you can go in to I know my rights guy and see where that gets you.

They can ask the driver to search, every cop I know tells me, they ask even when they already have PC because it looks better if the case goes to a DA.

So yes they all seem to ask, the driver is free to say no, if they already had PC as Im told they often do, the car is getting searched anyway. If they do not have PC, again from what I have seen personally and what Im told by cops, thats the end of it unless they really do think there is cause and they just need to continue the contact to establish it better before forcing the search.

None of that is being a sheeple nor am I saying give away rights....But a polite no thank you works, so getting all up in arms about how you say no is just petty.
I agree with you about being polite. And I agree with the poster you quoted about not giving up your rights. Ever. If the LEO has PC, then he will search. But he will never get my consent. I will be polite. But I will also be firm and clear in stating that I do not consent to any searches.

From my personal examples, I have had a LEO ask to search my vehicle twice, and my apartment once. I politely refused all three times. Apparently, none of those officers had PC because they let it go and did not conduct a search. Nothing good can possibly come from consenting to a search. Nothing. On the flip side, plenty of bad things can come from consenting to a search. At a minimum, you will prolong the traffic stop or other interaction significantly, but there is a very real risk of far worse outcomes.

If you have more cash than that particular officer is used to seeing, he might seize it under Civil Asset Forfeiture. If you have legal weapons and ammo in at least one Texas town, you might be spending a few days in jail (see the other active thread on this). In life, when we are facing a choice and one alternative has no upside and only downsides, it is usually best to not pick that alternative.
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#22

Post by Liberty » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:36 pm

dlh wrote:I believe we have discussed this issue in another thread but it does not readily come to mind. You might look at Section 38.02 of the Texas Penal Code. In some cases a passenger can be "under arrest" or the officer might be conducting an "investigatory detention" construed as a "type of arrest" that would require a passenger to identify themselves. Probably it is highly fact specific and will depend on each vehicle stop.
Under these circumstances, we are required to give our name. But there is no requirement to possess or present an ID to an arresting officer. The only requirement to present is when one is required to have a license to perform a function such as driving or carrying a handgun.

If you are arrested they will search your body, Inventory your items, and likely find any ID you happen to have on you.
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#23

Post by Wag2323 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:43 pm

This has been posted before I believe. It makes very good points.

I believe you should be polite to officer they are just doing there job but also not give information they did not need for the stop.



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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#24

Post by montgomery » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:15 pm

twomillenium wrote:
montgomery wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:
rotor wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:My mentality is if you aren't doing anything illegal you shouldn't have anything to worry about. A buddy of mine got pulled over once (we were teenagers) and I didn't have my ID on me and the LEO asked for my ID and I told him I didn't have one and he just said "ok" and went about his business. I imagine he asked for my ID too cause we were teenagers and he wanted to know who we were and what we were up to (we were going to wal mart to buy food from the deli lol). This practice has been going on for awhile cause that was 15 years ago and i imagineits been going on for even longer than that.
I can not agree with your mentality on that. First, you can always be found to be doing something illegal. I would never give any information not required by law. The last time I was stopped by LEO they did not ask for my passenger's ID. We wouldn't have given it either. They ran my ID.

I am always surprised watching the cop shows how they ask if we can search your car and the occupants say sure. They should say no but that's television.

The worst thing you can do is to think that you have "nothing to worry about as you are not doing anything illegal".
if you say no to the car search that prompts "Probable Cause" and they'll do it anyway... at least in my experience that's how it's always worked... however my car is so messy if they wanna search it, im all for it as lon gas they trow away all the trash while theyre doing it. :lol: :lol:
That is so wrong, it does NOT prompt "Probable Cause". I have been asked 3 time in my life and all three times, I politely say, "I don't mind at all if you don't mind me asking/requiring a search warrant." All three times, they did not search, which shows me they did not have a fishing license.
well that's how it's been in my experience... which was once and it wasnt my car. like i mentioned tho if it WAS my car I guarantee they wouldnt ask to search it haha :lol:
If that was your experience, then that is a shame. The mentality that "you have nothing to worry about if you are doing nothing illegal" comes from the mindset of sheeple.
How do you justify the rude, judgmental, unjustified "sheeple" reference? LEO politely asks a passenger for ID and complying is sheeple?
It is up to the citizen on how far they wish to comply, if it is something that they have a choice in, then it is their choice. If it is to illegally ignore a legal command then it is still their choice, but that may come with consequence. IMNSHO, to give up rights because you think that you don't have them, (when you do) is the behavior of "sheeple". Giving up rights that you want to give up is a personal decision and does not qualify as "sheeple".
I am kinda of disappointed that when stating what the sheeple mindset is, that I get accused of calling names. If read, the post it just states what a sheeple mindset is. (among other things) The only ones that should be offended would be a sheeple. So my apologies to the nonsheeples and sheepdogs. (hope I don't have to explain that)

If sheeple get all upset over the fact that they are sheeple, then I guess it is well within their rights to be offended with the other sheeple.
Life is good and that's all I have to say about that. (for now) :tiphat:
Nobody is offended, and it is laughable that you would even begin to refer to some of us as sheeple. I enjoyed the laughs.


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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#25

Post by twomillenium » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:00 pm

montgomery wrote: Nobody is offended, and it is laughable that you would even begin to refer to some of us as sheeple. I enjoyed the laughs.
I merely defined what I thought a sheeple was, I did not call anyone a sheeple. That is an idividual decision to be a sheeple. I even typed this slow so it could be better understood. :lol:

You know that thing that keeps you from saying or typing what you are thinking? Mine is broke.
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#26

Post by ninjabread » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:15 pm

Abraham wrote:I watch a lot of "PD Live" and almost every time there's a passenger in a stopped vehicle they are asked for I.D.s
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#27

Post by Abraham » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:45 pm

O.K.

Back to the passenger in an example of say: A driver speeding. The driver's going to get the ticket and there's no element of criminality.

Why should the passenger have to produce I.D.?

He/she's done nothing wrong? Is a bit of fishing going on?

Yes, I hear those of you understanding that cops can 'ask' for I.D.and you the passenger don't have to comply, and all will remain well...maybe...but much like refusing to a search consent (when it's really just a fishing expedition) I remain skeptical of this practice.

If you've done nothing more than speed and your passenger and yourself show zero signs of impairment or dope smoke smell, just issue the ticket and we'll all be on our merry way.

Quit asking for I.D. when not warranted.

Some LEO's have the idea that even if there's no evidence of criminality, hey you COULD be guilty of something.

Won't give consent for a search, fine, I'll have your vehicle towed.


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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#28

Post by BBYC » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:04 pm

Totally fishing. They can ask and you can decline or comply as you wish.
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#29

Post by Grundy1133 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:05 pm

Abraham wrote:O.K.

Back to the passenger in an example of say: A driver speeding. The driver's going to get the ticket and there's no element of criminality.

Why should the passenger have to produce I.D.?

He/she's done nothing wrong? Is a bit of fishing going on?

Yes, I hear those of you understanding that cops can 'ask' for I.D.and you the passenger don't have to comply, and all will remain well...maybe...but much like refusing to a search consent (when it's really just a fishing expedition) I remain skeptical of this practice.

If you've done nothing more than speed and your passenger and yourself show zero signs of impairment or dope smoke smell, just issue the ticket and we'll all be on our merry way.

Quit asking for I.D. when not warranted.

Some LEO's have the idea that even if there's no evidence of criminality, hey you COULD be guilty of something.

Won't give consent for a search, fine, I'll have your vehicle towed.
A LEO can have your vehicle towed even if he pulls you over for a routine traffic stop? That's pretty stupid... that'd be like a LEO coming to your house and trying to kick you out of it. Your car is your property... I'd be raising some cain about that if a LEO tried to tow my car for no reason...
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Re: Why Is Passenger Asked For I.D.?

#30

Post by rotor » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:51 pm

Abraham wrote:O.K.

Back to the passenger in an example of say: A driver speeding. The driver's going to get the ticket and there's no element of criminality.

Why should the passenger have to produce I.D.?

He/she's done nothing wrong? Is a bit of fishing going on?

Yes, I hear those of you understanding that cops can 'ask' for I.D.and you the passenger don't have to comply, and all will remain well...maybe...but much like refusing to a search consent (when it's really just a fishing expedition) I remain skeptical of this practice.

If you've done nothing more than speed and your passenger and yourself show zero signs of impairment or dope smoke smell, just issue the ticket and we'll all be on our merry way.

Quit asking for I.D. when not warranted.

Some LEO's have the idea that even if there's no evidence of criminality, hey you COULD be guilty of something.

Won't give consent for a search, fine, I'll have your vehicle towed.
I don't think so. If they have suspicion they can get a search warrant and if they have nothing they can get the drug dogs out but I don't think they can search your car or tow it without anything. Now if the dogs show a response they can get a warrant or perhaps search without. This isn't Nazi Germany.

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