Clear backpacks

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bbhack
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Re: Clear backpacks

#16

Post by bbhack » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:46 pm

Allons wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:06 pm
If they are not going thru metal detectors then this is not going to do anything. Instead of AR's next, it will be pocket pistols or something else. This is really a stupid idea.
The big incidents have nothing to do with this threat vector. The little incidents, yeah some kid brought a gun in. The little incidents are the target here, and the boards and administrators are pretending they are doing something about the big incidents by addressing the little incidents. They are fools, and they should not be in their positions of power if this is how they think.

Metal detectors - also addressing the little incidents.

Edit: I am not disagreeing with the point Allons made.
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Oldgringo
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Re: Clear backpacks

#17

Post by Oldgringo » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:27 pm

We didn't have backpacks when I was in public school but we did have parents who were held responsible for their underage spawn's actions. We also had school teachers and principals who could, and would, enforce correct behavior. Did I mention starting the school day with a prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance?


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Re: Clear backpacks

#18

Post by Aggie_engr » Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:41 pm

gtolbert09 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:53 pm
My daughter's backpack barely weighs 5lbs. The school district issues all the kids in middle school and high school an iPad. They rarely have books to carry round. Her High school also has 3 armed Resource Officers on campus during school hours. Lewisville ISD just announced that all campuses will have full time RSO's on campuses all day.
Well, aren't you special. :hurry: Glad your school seems to have their stuff together. However, I have to agree with the rest of the responses in that if we want to protect our schools in a realistic manner it will require metal detectors and locked entrances to every building. Not to mention RSO's and armed school marshals (i.e. teachers)....


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Re: Clear backpacks

#19

Post by Bruin98 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:22 pm

Allons wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:06 pm
If they are not going thru metal detectors then this is not going to do anything. Instead of AR's next, it will be pocket pistols or something else. This is really a stupid idea.
Metal detectors are just as big a charade. 7 years ago I worked at a school that had metal detectors and a clear back pack rule.

Fourth period rolled around one day and the kids were taking a test. A student approached me and said so and so has a knife. I told him to go sit down. A few minutes later another kid from the same area came up and said so and so has a knife. So and so not being a typical trouble maker, I told him to go sit down. A few minutes later another kid from the same area came up and said so and so has a knife.

I said fine give me the backpack. I searched it. Found nothing.

A few minutes later another kid came up and said, "it's in his pen."

Huh?"

"Take his pen."

So I took his pen. An off brand CROSS style pen.

"There's no knife here."

"Unscrew it."

Sure enough--there was a 2-3 inch blade where the ink cartridge was supposed to be.

Clear backpack. Metal detector. Knife still found its way into my classroom.


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Re: Clear backpacks

#20

Post by apostate » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:35 pm

Many of the guys carried pocket knives when I was in highschool. SAKs and the BSA variant were most common, but there were lockbacks too, like my Gerber LST. I'm not sure how America went from that to the current sad state of affairs, but inanimate objects weren't and aren't the problem.

More and more I just want to go live in a cabin somewhere. Or perhaps a cave.

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Re: Clear backpacks

#21

Post by Allons » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:44 am

Bruin98 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:22 pm
Allons wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:06 pm
If they are not going thru metal detectors then this is not going to do anything. Instead of AR's next, it will be pocket pistols or something else. This is really a stupid idea.
Metal detectors are just as big a charade. 7 years ago I worked at a school that had metal detectors and a clear back pack rule.

Fourth period rolled around one day and the kids were taking a test. A student approached me and said so and so has a knife. I told him to go sit down. A few minutes later another kid from the same area came up and said so and so has a knife. So and so not being a typical trouble maker, I told him to go sit down. A few minutes later another kid from the same area came up and said so and so has a knife.

I said fine give me the backpack. I searched it. Found nothing.

A few minutes later another kid came up and said, "it's in his pen."

Huh?"

"Take his pen."

So I took his pen. An off brand CROSS style pen.

"There's no knife here."

"Unscrew it."

Sure enough--there was a 2-3 inch blade where the ink cartridge was supposed to be.

Clear backpack. Metal detector. Knife still found its way into my classroom.

I could see how a knife inside a pen could make to your classroom. All that has to happen is for someone not opening that pen and checking it. If metal detectors are a charade, why are they still being used at every courthouse and airport in America? What school with metal detectors have had a school shooting? What do you suggest we do, Arm Teachers? I have no problem with that, however, you're still putting more lives at risk because no one is checking for guns coming in.
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Re: Clear backpacks

#22

Post by Boxerrider » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:01 am

A clear bag avoids contraband hidden between the bag's outer layer and lining, and that's about it. It still requires a metal detector or x-ray and a hand search to find dangerous items.
Serious security starts requires a serious attitude about being secure, and then procedures are developed and equipment purchased. While no security measures will ever be 100%, that isn't a valid excuse for not having any at all.

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Re: Clear backpacks

#23

Post by cyphertext » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:23 am

Allons wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:44 am


I could see how a knife inside a pen could make to your classroom. All that has to happen is for someone not opening that pen and checking it. If metal detectors are a charade, why are they still being used at every courthouse and airport in America? What school with metal detectors have had a school shooting? What do you suggest we do, Arm Teachers? I have no problem with that, however, you're still putting more lives at risk because no one is checking for guns coming in.
Court houses and airports have limited access points... The high school my son attended has multiple entrances, at least 12 that I can think of off the top of my head and I bet I am missing a few, and that is the main building only... doesn't include the tech building or the field house. Some high schools in our area have much larger campuses that look more like junior colleges than high schools. Metal detectors just aren't very practical when trying to move 2200+ (number of students in a 6A school) through in the morning. Plus you would have to do it again during each lunch period since students can leave campus.

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Re: Clear backpacks

#24

Post by Liberty » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:00 am

Maybe if we ran schools more like prisons we could prevent weapons and other contraban from getting in.

Oh wait, that hasn't worked either. :biggrinjester:
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Re: Clear backpacks

#25

Post by mojo84 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:55 am

I find it somewhat curious how some are so ardent in their advocacy of the 1st and 2nd Amendments but seem to not be so concerned about the 4th.

Searches and metal detectors are just more bandaids that may make some people feel safer while not addressing the root of the problems which are evil intentions, lack of parenting, untreated or insufficiently treated severe mental illness, devaluation of life, and misfits that want to make a name for themselves by getting back at society.

The answer is to recognize these root problems in individuals and address them prior to them going off the rails and causing a tragedy rather than treating everyone like a threat or criminal.

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Re: Clear backpacks

#26

Post by Paladin » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:51 am

Liberty wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:00 am
Maybe if we ran schools more like prisons we could prevent weapons and other contraban from getting in.

Oh wait, that hasn't worked either. :biggrinjester:
This!
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Re: Clear backpacks

#27

Post by Paladin » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:05 am

Right now kids are sitting in class all day getting bored, fat, and medicated to sit still. If schools really wanted to "get serious" about school violence and the mental issues with kids today they would spend a whole lot more time exercising kids at school.

Exercise:
It Can Make You Feel Happier. ...
It Can Help With Weight Loss. ...
It Is Good for Your Muscles and Bones. ...
It Can Increase Your Energy Levels. ...
It Can Reduce Your Risk of Chronic Disease. ...
It Can Help Skin Health. ...
It Can Help Your Brain Health and Memory. ...
It Can Help With Relaxation and Sleep Quality.
Top Benefits of Regular Exercise

Its an idea that's constitutional and popular with parents

I would bet you more time spent exercising and less time in the classroom would actually raise grades and test performance: Exercise linked to better performance in school
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Re: Clear backpacks

#28

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:16 am

Someone needs to send David Hogg a link to this thread. He'll think you folks are in his fan club.

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Re: Clear backpacks

#29

Post by Allons » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:35 am

mojo84 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:55 am
I find it somewhat curious how some are so ardent in their advocacy of the 1st and 2nd Amendments but seem to not be so concerned about the 4th.

Searches and metal detectors are just more bandaids that may make some people feel safer while not addressing the root of the problems which are evil intentions, lack of parenting, untreated or insufficiently treated severe mental illness, devaluation of life, and misfits that want to make a name for themselves by getting back at society.

The answer is to recognize these root problems in individuals and address them prior to them going off the rails and causing a tragedy rather than treating everyone like a threat or criminal.
The signs were recognized with the Parkland shooting and nothing was done. That could have been prevented but it was not. I don't consider me going thru a metal detector as being treated like threat or a criminal, sorry I just don't, but I do respect your opinion.
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Re: Clear backpacks

#30

Post by Bruin98 » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:54 am

Allons wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:44 am
Bruin98 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:22 pm
Allons wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:06 pm
If they are not going thru metal detectors then this is not going to do anything. Instead of AR's next, it will be pocket pistols or something else. This is really a stupid idea.
Metal detectors are just as big a charade. 7 years ago I worked at a school that had metal detectors and a clear back pack rule.

Fourth period rolled around one day and the kids were taking a test. A student approached me and said so and so has a knife. I told him to go sit down. A few minutes later another kid from the same area came up and said so and so has a knife. So and so not being a typical trouble maker, I told him to go sit down. A few minutes later another kid from the same area came up and said so and so has a knife.

I said fine give me the backpack. I searched it. Found nothing.

A few minutes later another kid came up and said, "it's in his pen."

Huh?"

"Take his pen."

So I took his pen. An off brand CROSS style pen.

"There's no knife here."

"Unscrew it."

Sure enough--there was a 2-3 inch blade where the ink cartridge was supposed to be.

Clear backpack. Metal detector. Knife still found its way into my classroom.

I could see how a knife inside a pen could make to your classroom. All that has to happen is for someone not opening that pen and checking it. If metal detectors are a charade, why are they still being used at every courthouse and airport in America? What school with metal detectors have had a school shooting? What do you suggest we do, Arm Teachers? I have no problem with that, however, you're still putting more lives at risk because no one is checking for guns coming in.
Teachers receive no training on metal detectors. Every other metal detector I've walked through (outside a few sports stadiums) has a trained person working the detector (TSA, police, private security, etc).

My training consisted of if it beeps, empty pockets and send them back, if it still beeps, do a visual inspection and let them in. Charade.

Somebody else brought up multiple access points. It's very possible to drop a backpack outside a door, enter the building and go get the backpack. Charade.

I'm not saying metal detectors don't help. That was an incredibly crafty way to get a knife in. I'm just saying they aren't the cure a lot of people think they are.

I'd arm teachers, but as part of a plan. Comprehensive planning is the solution. Not a few cherry picked solutions.

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