"The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

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mojo84
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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#16

Post by mojo84 » Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:20 pm

Do true libertarians believe in having an FDA or should we rely on free market and the court system to address medical device and pharma issues?
Last edited by mojo84 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.


srothstein
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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#17

Post by srothstein » Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:32 pm

I think of myself as a libertarian but I am only speaking for myself. My basic philosophy of government is that we, the people, form governments to protect us from those who would prey upon us. Preying upon us includes armed criminals, foreign governments, and the unarmed criminals who use fraud to harm us.

Given that, I prefer to not have the FDA in the mix and allow the market supplemented by the courts hearing disputes to solve us. But I freely admit that the FDA is a legitimate use of the government's power. I have problems with the way our current FDA is doing things, but a properly structured FDA could require proper testing before allowing something on the market. I think it should only require proof that the device or medicine is not harmful and the ingredients making it are as listed, and should not require proof that it actually does what is claimed. If I want to try an experimental product, I should be allowed to without having to jump through extra hoops other than my paying for it.
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PriestTheRunner
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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#18

Post by PriestTheRunner » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:55 am

mojo84 wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:20 pm
Do true libertarians believe in having and FDA or should we rely on free market and the court system to address medical device and pharma issues?
No FDA. Free market, court systems, licensing and professional opinion of your own doctor.

Combine that with a regulation free (or light) insurance market across the whole US and healthcare just became very affordable for all.


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Abraham
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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#19

Post by Abraham » Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:59 am

The left can't stand the truth.

But, that's their choice.

I couldn't care less regarding their hate...


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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#20

Post by BBYC » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:10 pm

srothstein wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:32 pm
I think of myself as a libertarian but I am only speaking for myself. My basic philosophy of government is that we, the people, form governments to protect us from those who would prey upon us. Preying upon us includes armed criminals, foreign governments, and the unarmed criminals who use fraud to harm us.

Given that, I prefer to not have the FDA in the mix and allow the market supplemented by the courts hearing disputes to solve us. But I freely admit that the FDA is a legitimate use of the government's power.
From a libertarian philosophical standpoint, the government shouldn't engage in prior restraint of free trade.

From a non libertarian standpoint, it may be a legitimate exercise of a state's power to regulate food and drugs within it's own borders but the feds literally have no constitutional authority to regulate food or drugs (or guns, etc) within a state.

Then there's realpolitik.
God, grant me serenity to accept the things I can't change
Courage to change the things I can
And the firepower to make a difference.


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Abraham
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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#21

Post by Abraham » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:19 pm

If the FDA wasn't strenuously and successfully lobbied, I would trust them.

As it is, they are successfully lobbied so I don't trust them even a little...

They are in the pockets of the medical device mfgs.


Rob72
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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#22

Post by Rob72 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:58 pm

I've worked a ~$30 million device study (those are the costs I was aware of), that went 8 years beyond the anticipated closure date because they could not prove statistically superior efficacy. For some participants, it was a genuine, "Silver Bullet," with dramatic impact and improvement. For others, there was no significant change from baseline, a few (5/100) had worsening of symptoms.

The division of the device manufacturer's company, that initiated the study, took a ~15% hit to their stocks, after the first over run, and that didn't improve after the initial analysis (filing with the FDA) was released. People lost their jobs, and a really good, but niche, application for the device was lost.

Be careful with the paintbrush. Legal gun-owners do some really stoopid stuff, and not all of them lose their rights, either. Our system isn't perfect, but, IME, it's a quantum improvement over Europe. There is an informal list of studies where "socialized" countries have sponsored painfully bogus studies to validate inferior medications and therapies, serving no purpose than cost-containment and decreasing healthcare costs by reducing the population over 60. Most of these countries have "Private" medical care as well, where options are better. Much like owning a suppressor... ;-)


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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#23

Post by rotor » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:58 pm

The FDA isn't perfect but if you take Valsartan you may want to know that the FDA has recalled it because of cancer causing contaminants. My wife previously took this med. China still ships lead contaminated products to us. We need an agency to oversee these kinds of problems. It's not just "free market" and let the patient and doctor settle it. How would any doctor know that a medicine is contaminated? There are realistic and legitimate reasons to have a watchdog agency but there has to be a balance in risk vs. benefit. Trump's new policy of allowing terminal patients to try new drugs even if all the risks are not known is a good start.

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Bitter Clinger
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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#24

Post by Bitter Clinger » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:22 pm

Objective review of the film by a knowlegible industry professional:

The Tip of the Spear: A Review of "The Bleeding Edge" and What's Waiting Behind Door #2:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tip-spea ... door-balch
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Rubicon
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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#25

Post by Rubicon » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:39 pm

I trust Amtrak more than I trust the FDA.
the die is cast

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The Annoyed Man
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Re: "The Bleeding Edge" is about medical implants

#26

Post by The Annoyed Man » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:26 am

Bitter Clinger wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:22 pm
Objective review of the film by a knowlegible industry professional:

The Tip of the Spear: A Review of "The Bleeding Edge" and What's Waiting Behind Door #2:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tip-spea ... door-balch
Just read it, and thanks for the link. I think it was fair and balanced.....and not that far off the mark from my original reactions to the movie, and my response here....with one exception. The exception was my understanding of and reaction to 510K before the movie (which was nonexistent), after the movie (which was a sense of alarm), and then after reading the article (feeling better informed).
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
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