Alcohol and self defense

[Odinvalknir]

Many of the questions and threads that I post here and on Reddit usually start with something that has piqued curiosity. That being said. I generally dislike the what if, or scenario questions, just figured I would ask anyway.


I'm not a drinker really, rare is the occasion that I get drunk, usually just a couple beers while grilling or hanging out with neighbors and friends or family. Recently though a friend recommended a certain type of bourbon and I actually really like it. Still only maybe have a small glass over ice after work once or twice a week. It's high enough proof that I get a good little buzz after a double shot sized glass.


Now say I go to take my trash out, or get something from the truck etc and someone runs up on me and I discharge my firearm to stop them. What kind of legal issues could stem from being slightly intoxicated and using my carry firearm?

[Oldgringo]

I dunno', but I'm sure your definition of "slightly intoxicated" would come into question at some point.

[rotor]

Some things are better not posted on social media.

[Odinvalknir]

I dunno', but I'm sure your definition of "slightly intoxicated" would come into question at some point.

Less than the legal limit

[Bitter Clinger]

Take the trash our first, get what you need from the truck before you imbibe, and don't carry when you drink. Simple.

[Keith B]

I dunno', but I'm sure your definition of "slightly intoxicated" would come into question at some point.

Less than the legal limit

Legal limit is not necessarily the issue. There are two definitions for intoxicated in Texas:

Sec. 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
.........
(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or

(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
.......

So, legal limit is .08 BAC or above and you are 'de facto' intoxicated. You can be determined intoxicated by (2)(A) and be under .08 BAC.

Now, let's assume you have had a drink at home and are not 'intoxicated'. You don't give up the right to defense just by having consumed alcohol, but it will be looked at by a Grand Jury and Prosecutor as to what your state of mind was when you chose to defend yourself. It will be one additional factor in determining your justification. If you ARE intoxicated, you still don't give up the right to defense, but it will add other factors as to if you were legal carrying where you took the trash to. If you are on your own property, then I don't believe you are in violation by being armed and intoxicated.

So, it's best to not have anything in your system that will add to the question of your state of mind when you have to use lethal force to defend yourself.

[Liberty]

In real life practicality. Would you appear intoxicated to the responding officers? You have the right to remain silent. If you have just a slight buzz from one or two drinks and it's a good shoot the issue might never come up. If you're staggering, have slurred speech or reek of alcohol. Your likely going to have some issues.

[warnmar10]

Some things are better not posted on social media.

Mmm hmm.

[Odinvalknir]

In real life practicality. Would you appear intoxicated to the responding officers? You have the right to remain silent. If you have just a slight buzz from one or two drinks and it's a good shoot the issue might never come up. If you're staggering, have slurred speech or reek of alcohol. Your likely going to have some issues.

Yea, I dont ever get to the point of staggering or slurred speech, I hate being drunk. I dont mind the buzzed feeling but I usually stop once/if I get to that point.

[Oldgringo]

In real life practicality. Would you appear intoxicated to the responding officers? You have the right to remain silent. If you have just a slight buzz from one or two drinks and it's a good shoot the issue might never come up. If you're staggering, have slurred speech or reek of alcohol. Your likely going to have some issues.

Yea, I dont ever get to the point of staggering or slurred speech, I hate being drunk. I dont mind the buzzed feeling but I usually stop once/if I get to that point.

...and then there is the civil suit to contend with.

[C-dub]

If a person has never had their BAC done by a lab under various conditions of drunkenness, then whether or not he or she is legally drunk has not been determined. Everyone is different and most people are shocked when they find out what their BAC is when it's tested. Some are shocked how high it is, while others are shocked at how low.

Being buzzed is drunk. It might not be slurred speech, can't walk a straight line, puking to the porcelain god drunk, but there's a decent chance it's legally intoxicated.

However, being justified in the use of deadly force to defend oneself doesn't matter whether one is drunk or not. I liken it to when minors use a firearm for self defense of themselves or another.

[srothstein]

I think there is a combination of things to consider. The two big ones are the criminal case and the civil suit. In the criminal case. I think most of the question in the criminal case is going to be if the shoot was justified or not. If the shoot was clearly justified, I doubt if your being buzzed will make much difference. The same is true if it was clearly not justified. It might make a difference if the shoot is marginal. In a case like that, I can see how a DA can use intoxication to bring into doubt if a marginal shooting was justified at all, especially if it is an anti-gun DA. Consider that the largest problem with drinking alcohol is that it affects judgment. If the shoot was marginal, do you think the DA or jury is going to trust your judgment in a case like that?

Then we have to look at the civil case. Again, in a clear shoot, it will not be a problem. Fortunately, we have a law in Texas that says you cannot be found liable for damages if the shooting was justified. If it was marginal or not justified, you would have no automatic defense to the shooting. Now you have a plaintiff's attorney trying to sway a jury in his favor over yours and he is going to make it look like you were pretty reckless in drinking and then shooting. Was the alcohol giving you liquid courage? Did your drinking make you feel braver and more willing to pull the trigger? It would go on in that vein for a while.

In addition, as one last point, I would like to point out that there is no legal limit for intoxication. It is whenever your BAC is over .08 OR whenever you are not in full possession of your normal mental OR physical faculties due to the intake of any substance. Contrary to common belief, this is not just the judgment of the police officer but it requires some evidence to back up his belief. It is usually going to be based on the results of a standardized field sobriety test. There may be a field breath test on a handheld device. These are not legal for use as evidence in a DWI case but count towards the officer's probable cause. You will be surprised at how little alcohol will cause problems on a SFST.

Based on all of this, I recommend not picking up a firearm after drinking at all. This is not a law and not even a firm rule as there are always exceptions that may come up. And I will freely admit that a big part of this is early training that alcohol and gunpowder do not mix (both parental and military advice). I also admit that I very rarely drink anyway, so this is easy for me to to. It may or may not be harder for anyone else to avoid firearms after a social drink. I certainly would understand if anyone disagreed and went with the actual law (not to carry while intoxicated). This is just my personal recommendation for this area of life.

[WTR]

The most I drink is splitting a beer on the front porch swing with my wife as we watch the cats play. I stay armed and just split no more than two beers per evening.

[PBR]

Well I'm no lawyer and have no clue but if I'm on my own property I would still carry. The way I look at it is, again if on your own property, it shouldn't matter if intoxicated or not if getting attacked. Would be no different if I'm drunk in my house and someone broke in I still have the right to defend myself. Again I'm probably wrong but just my view and would be statement on it.

[pushpullpete]

I haven't drunk to get drunk in probably almost 40 yrs, I prefer quality over quantity. That said, store your Bourbon/liquor in
the freezer along w your glass. No longer do you need ice that spoils the flavor. Simply sip & enjoy. Don't forget to alternate
a glass of water to keep hydrated and keep away the hangover.