Negligent entrustment of a firearm: TX courts haven't ruled.

Topics that do not fit anywhere else. Absolutely NO discussions of religion, race, or immigration!

Moderators: Charles L. Cotton, carlson1

Post Reply

Topic author
surprise_i'm_armed
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 4122
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:16 am
Location: Shady Shores, Denton County. On the shores of Lake Lewisville. John Wayne filmed here.

Negligent entrustment of a firearm: TX courts haven't ruled.

#1

Post by surprise_i'm_armed » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:53 pm

https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cf ... ntID=42974

The above link is to an article in the Texas Bar Journal, November 2018, pages 790 & 792. The author is Attorney Jefferson W. Fisher of Beaumont.

Here's some of the key points, but he goes into much greater detail in the piece:

If you negligently let a non-licensed person drive, and they get in a wreck, you are at fault for "entrusting" them with the vehicle.

35 other states have ruled that, just like a vehicle, if you negligently entrust someone with a firearm, and they commit a crime with it, you are at fault for letting them have the gun.

The Texas Supreme Court has never made a statewide ruling regarding the negligent entrustment of a firearm. Any cases that have included this facet of prosecution have been decided on a "onesy" basis.

Some anecdotes from the piece:
A father gave his son a shotgun for Christmas. The son, who had not shown criminal intentions previously, used the shotgun to do a driveby.

A man kept a revolver in his drawer at work, and allowed multiple people to borrow it. A female coworker took it and murdered her husband with it.
She had confided unhappiness with her marriage, plus affairs. Should the revolver owner be at fault? Should he have known she would murder the husband?

This article brings up a lot of interesting points. It takes a little while to read, but hopefully I will be able to spur some discussion of this subject.

SIA
The 4 rules: 1. All guns are loaded.
2. Do not let your firearm point at anything you do not want to destroy or kill.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to shoot.
4. Identify your target clearly, and what is behind it.

User avatar

Jago668
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 836
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 12:31 am

Re: Negligent entrustment of a firearm: TX courts haven't ruled.

#2

Post by Jago668 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:17 pm

I'm okay with this as long as it happens to corporations and the government. Well you entrusted that officer with the pistol, and they murdered somebody, so everyone up the chain of command to include the council and mayor get murder charges as well. Well you entrusted that copy of windows to this person and they wrote a virus on a computer using it, so Dell, Windows, and the ISP all get the same charges as the person that wrote the virus.
NRA Benefactor Member

User avatar

The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 24690
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: Negligent entrustment of a firearm: TX courts haven't ruled.

#3

Post by The Annoyed Man » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:48 pm

Jago668 wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:17 pm
I'm okay with this as long as it happens to corporations and the government. Well you entrusted that officer with the pistol, and they murdered somebody, so everyone up the chain of command to include the council and mayor get murder charges as well. Well you entrusted that copy of windows to this person and they wrote a virus on a computer using it, so Dell, Windows, and the ISP all get the same charges as the person that wrote the virus.
Jago668 for POTUS in 2020.
Give me Liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself.—Hookalakah Meshobbab
I don't carry because of the odds, I carry because of the stakes.—The Annoyed Boy

User avatar

bigtek
Banned
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:48 am

Re: Negligent entrustment of a firearm: TX courts haven't ruled.

#4

Post by bigtek » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:08 pm

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:53 pm
If you negligently let a non-licensed person drive, and they get in a wreck, you are at fault for "entrusting" them with the vehicle.
First, it sounds like we're talking about civil liability, not criminal prosecution. Second, in the automobile example, it sounds like the bar is pretty high. If you allow somebody to drive your car, and you know they are not legally allowed to operate a motor vehicle because they have no license, that's gross negligence. It doesn't sound like the same liability exists if you loan your car to your roommate who has a valid license.
surprise_i'm_armed wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:53 pm
35 other states have ruled that, just like a vehicle, if you negligently entrust someone with a firearm, and they commit a crime with it, you are at fault for letting them have the gun.
I don't know if those 35 other states require a license, like a FOID, to possess a firearm. If so, then the situation sounds analogous to the motor vehicle liability. Texas doesn't require a license to possess a firearm, so the motor vehicle analogy is flawed from the start in Texas. It would be like being liable for loaning a neighbor a chainsaw after a hurricane, and they use it to massacre people instead of clearing storm debris.

We do have a law (46.06) that prohibits giving a handgun to somebody if you know he "intends to use it unlawfully or in the commission of an unlawful act" and the same section prohibits giving a firearm to somebody you if you know they're a felon or intoxicated. IANAL but I don't see anything that prohibits a civil action against you by a crime victims, if it was illegal for you to provide the gun he used in the crime.
Deck the halls with nitroglycerin
Fa la la la la la la la la!
Strike a match and see who's missin'
Fa la la la la la la la la!

User avatar

tbrown
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1659
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:47 pm

Re: Negligent entrustment of a firearm: TX courts haven't ruled.

#5

Post by tbrown » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:12 pm

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:53 pm
https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cf ... ntID=42974

The above link is to an article in the Texas Bar Journal, November 2018, pages 790 & 792. The author is Attorney Jefferson W. Fisher of Beaumont.

Here's some of the key points, but he goes into much greater detail in the piece:

If you negligently let a non-licensed person drive, and they get in a wreck, you are at fault for "entrusting" them with the vehicle.
I would like to see this applied to the murder of Silvia Zavala.
sent to you from my safe space in the hill country

User avatar

Syntyr
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1232
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:54 pm
Location: Houston
Contact:

Re: Negligent entrustment of a firearm: TX courts haven't ruled.

#6

Post by Syntyr » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:45 pm

tbrown wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:12 pm
surprise_i'm_armed wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:53 pm
https://www.texasbar.com/AM/Template.cf ... ntID=42974

The above link is to an article in the Texas Bar Journal, November 2018, pages 790 & 792. The author is Attorney Jefferson W. Fisher of Beaumont.

Here's some of the key points, but he goes into much greater detail in the piece:

If you negligently let a non-licensed person drive, and they get in a wreck, you are at fault for "entrusting" them with the vehicle.
I would like to see this applied to the murder of Silvia Zavala.
ALL sanctuary cities!!! Release a known criminal alien and be responsible for the crimes he commits.
Syntyr
Happiness is two at low eight!


stroo
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 1
Posts: 1674
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:46 pm
Location: Coppell

Re: Negligent entrustment of a firearm: TX courts haven't ruled.

#7

Post by stroo » Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:57 pm

There are 3 reported cases in the last 40 years according to the article. This doesn't seem to be a burning legal question in Texas. Of course it would only take one case to make it a real issue.

Post Reply

Return to “Off-Topic”