Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

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WTR
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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#76

Post by WTR » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:16 am

carlson1 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:01 pm
Listen to the call to the police. Not one time did the neighbor request a well fare check. He said the doors were open. I can understand why the officers responded the way they did because they did not know what they were facing. Park away from the address, walk in stealth mode, and size up the situation first. You just don’t walk up and knock on the door.

With that being said the officer who shot through the window had so many things that he could have done and this would not have ended in the killing of this young lady.

We have too many officers dying and one citizen innocently killed by the police is one too many. The Academy is going to have to go back to the drawing board and teach some different tactics.
Link to call please.

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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#77

Post by carlson1 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:19 pm

WTR wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:16 am
carlson1 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:01 pm
Listen to the call to the police. Not one time did the neighbor request a well fare check. He said the doors were open. I can understand why the officers responded the way they did because they did not know what they were facing. Park away from the address, walk in stealth mode, and size up the situation first. You just don’t walk up and knock on the door.

With that being said the officer who shot through the window had so many things that he could have done and this would not have ended in the killing of this young lady.

We have too many officers dying and one citizen innocently killed by the police is one too many. The Academy is going to have to go back to the drawing board and teach some different tactics.
Link to call please.
They played it on KLTV Dallas.
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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#78

Post by WTR » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:29 pm

Ok..... thanks. I just have not been able to find it. I did read the Polce responded to an “ open building “ call and not a welfare check. Still no excuse for the shoot (IMO).


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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#79

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:39 pm

03Lightningrocks wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:23 pm
philip964 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:45 pm
There is a quote "to a hammer everything is a nail".

I hope it is repeated over and over to the police cadets that everyone is not a bad guy. Protect and Serve.

I am an armchair quarterback now, but if your are trying to sneak into the backyard so that when someone does announce "Police" at the front door, you can catch the bad guy leaving from a rear entrance, why do you have your flashlight on and not ducking under windows.

It seems shining your flashlight into a window, while standing in the middle of a bedroom window, at 2:30 in the morning, is a good way to get shot by a bad guy or a homeowner.

RIP great Auntie.
If that were going down in my back yard I would go full blown tactical inside my home. I would arm myself with my 12 gage. I would avoid all windows and doors while remaining low to the ground and stay concealed as possible. It would never enter my mid that a cop was in my yard. Maybe it would now but before now it wouldn't have.
This would trigger an emergency response for me.

My bedroom curtains are closed at night, but I can see a flashlight through them if someone is poking around my yard. In this case, I might also be woken up by my dog going nuts. I would get the long gun from my bedside safe, give my wife the shotgun, and possibly also the revolver, and instruct her to get to the closet and call 911 while I moved to the living room, staying behind cover. We have full length windows in the living room, and if I saw a guy creeping around that corner with a gun in his hand, things might well end with one of us shot. It's about a 25 yard shot, and I'm not likely to miss with an AR that has a 4X ACOG sitting on it.

I might not be able to choose inaction at that point since my dog would likely be attacking the perp (doggie door to the backyard), and my son could also wander into harms way if he woke up. He has to traverse a catwalk that is in full view of those windows in order to get to the stairs from his room, and his first instinct would be to get to his mom, I believe.
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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#80

Post by 03Lightningrocks » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:50 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:39 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:23 pm
philip964 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:45 pm
There is a quote "to a hammer everything is a nail".

I hope it is repeated over and over to the police cadets that everyone is not a bad guy. Protect and Serve.

I am an armchair quarterback now, but if your are trying to sneak into the backyard so that when someone does announce "Police" at the front door, you can catch the bad guy leaving from a rear entrance, why do you have your flashlight on and not ducking under windows.

It seems shining your flashlight into a window, while standing in the middle of a bedroom window, at 2:30 in the morning, is a good way to get shot by a bad guy or a homeowner.

RIP great Auntie.
If that were going down in my back yard I would go full blown tactical inside my home. I would arm myself with my 12 gage. I would avoid all windows and doors while remaining low to the ground and stay concealed as possible. It would never enter my mid that a cop was in my yard. Maybe it would now but before now it wouldn't have.
This would trigger an emergency response for me.

My bedroom curtains are closed at night, but I can see a flashlight through them if someone is poking around my yard. In this case, I might also be woken up by my dog going nuts. I would get the long gun from my bedside safe, give my wife the shotgun, and possibly also the revolver, and instruct her to get to the closet and call 911 while I moved to the living room, staying behind cover. We have full length windows in the living room, and if I saw a guy creeping around that corner with a gun in his hand, things might well end with one of us shot. It's about a 25 yard shot, and I'm not likely to miss with an AR that has a 4X ACOG sitting on it.

I might not be able to choose inaction at that point since my dog would likely be attacking the perp (doggie door to the backyard), and my son could also wander into harms way if he woke up. He has to traverse a catwalk that is in full view of those windows in order to get to the stairs from his room, and his first instinct would be to get to his mom, I believe.
Soccerdad1995, the picture you draw is downright frightening. Jesus Jesepe! I am single with my kids all grown so I have the luxury of some hesitation. But when you insert the cast of characters such as in your post, there is little to no room for taking chances. When my kids were younger and still at home, I did not play at all. The desire to protect my loved ones came first. Police should not be lurking around in back yards and shining lights through windows. That crap has to stop!

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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#81

Post by aaangel » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:56 pm

From some of my posts it is pretty obvious I am impatient with race baiting but to be honest, I have to wonder if the response has to do with it being a lower income mainly black neighborhood. I would love to know if it is department policy to respond to ALL wellness checks in tactical combat fashion.
[/quote]

I bet you $$$, a wellness check on main st and clearfork is far different than on main st and allen.
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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#82

Post by WTR » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:18 pm

aaangel wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:56 pm
From some of my posts it is pretty obvious I am impatient with race baiting but to be honest, I have to wonder if the response has to do with it being a lower income mainly black neighborhood. I would love to know if it is department policy to respond to ALL wellness checks in tactical combat fashion.
I bet you $$$, a wellness check on main st and clearfork is far different than on main st and allen.
[/quote]

As Carson1 said earlier, the call was not described as a wellness check to the Officers. However, demographics may well have come into play.

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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#83

Post by C-dub » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:20 pm

carlson1 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:01 pm
Listen to the call to the police. Not one time did the neighbor request a well fare check. He said the doors were open. I can understand why the officers responded the way they did because they did not know what they were facing. Park away from the address, walk in stealth mode, and size up the situation first. You just don’t walk up and knock on the door.

With that being said the officer who shot through the window had so many things that he could have done and this would not have ended in the killing of this young lady.

We have too many officers dying and one citizen innocently killed by the police is one too many. The Academy is going to have to go back to the drawing board and teach some different tactics.
I was wondering what information was passed down to the responders. Now it seems like it is even worse.

Regarding the hammer/nail thing; Brad Pitt's character said that in the movie World War Z.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#84

Post by carlson1 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:31 pm

C-dub wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:20 pm
carlson1 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:01 pm
Listen to the call to the police. Not one time did the neighbor request a well fare check. He said the doors were open. I can understand why the officers responded the way they did because they did not know what they were facing. Park away from the address, walk in stealth mode, and size up the situation first. You just don’t walk up and knock on the door.

With that being said the officer who shot through the window had so many things that he could have done and this would not have ended in the killing of this young lady.

We have too many officers dying and one citizen innocently killed by the police is one too many. The Academy is going to have to go back to the drawing board and teach some different tactics.
I was wondering what information was passed down to the responders. Now it seems like it is even worse.

Regarding the hammer/nail thing; Brad Pitt's character said that in the movie World War Z.
The Chief did say the would be investigating the dispatchers and how it was dispatched. It sad all the way around. I am not for sure looking at the body cam what gave the officer the impression he needed to use deadly forever, but I wasn’t there. So many things he could have done different. Even if they backed off and called SWAT it would have ended better.
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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#85

Post by K.Mooneyham » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:16 am

I read elsewhere that police initially stood in front of the open door to the house, the article didn't say at what distance. Why did they not simply announce themselves? "This is the Fort Worth Police, your door is open, is everything okay in there?" I mean, this wasn't a "no-knock raid" against a known drug house or something of that nature, even if the neighborhood in question isn't Trophy Club. If they were expecting trouble, why would they have stood in front of the open doorway, assuming they did indeed do exactly that? That just doesn't make sense, from a "tactical" perspective.

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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#86

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:30 am

K.Mooneyham wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:16 am
I read elsewhere that police initially stood in front of the open door to the house, the article didn't say at what distance. Why did they not simply announce themselves? "This is the Fort Worth Police, your door is open, is everything okay in there?" I mean, this wasn't a "no-knock raid" against a known drug house or something of that nature, even if the neighborhood in question isn't Trophy Club. If they were expecting trouble, why would they have stood in front of the open doorway, assuming they did indeed do exactly that? That just doesn't make sense, from a "tactical" perspective.
I haven't seen anything about the officer standing in the doorway, but if so, then you are exactly right.

Chas.


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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#87

Post by LDP » Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:11 pm

I agree wholeheartedly that the call from dispatch makes a lot of difference to the officers.
"Welfare check" vs "open doors at 2am and possible burglary". Frames the mind in different terms.

Though I am not justifying the officer's actions.

I wonder whether they will fry him on the murder charge too. Is he stupid enough to say on the stand "yes, I INTENDED to kill the person"?


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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#88

Post by surprise_i'm_armed » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:05 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:30 am
K.Mooneyham wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:16 am
I read elsewhere that police initially stood in front of the open door to the house, the article didn't say at what distance. Why did they not simply announce themselves? "This is the Fort Worth Police, your door is open, is everything okay in there?" I mean, this wasn't a "no-knock raid" against a known drug house or something of that nature, even if the neighborhood in question isn't Trophy Club. If they were expecting trouble, why would they have stood in front of the open doorway, assuming they did indeed do exactly that? That just doesn't make sense, from a "tactical" perspective.
I haven't seen anything about the officer standing in the doorway, but if so, then you are exactly right.

Chas.
Go to page 1 of this thread. Go to the second entry, which is a 2:04 bodycam video. As soon as it begins you can see the LEO standing at the front door, looking into the house through the glass storm door. But never announcing "Fort Worth PD". Then skulking around to the right, under an apparent car port, then looking into the window and shooting this poor woman.

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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#89

Post by Excaliber » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:14 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:30 am
K.Mooneyham wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:16 am
I read elsewhere that police initially stood in front of the open door to the house, the article didn't say at what distance. Why did they not simply announce themselves? "This is the Fort Worth Police, your door is open, is everything okay in there?" I mean, this wasn't a "no-knock raid" against a known drug house or something of that nature, even if the neighborhood in question isn't Club. If they were expecting trouble, why would they have stood in front of the open doorway, assuming they did indeed do exactly that? That just doesn't make sense, from a "tactical" perspective.
I haven't seen anything about the officer standing in the doorway, but if so, then you are exactly right.

Chas.
There's also a little thing called a doorbell that could have sorted the situation out right quick. If that doesn't work, there's also the old fashioned cop technique called "knocking" on the door.

From where I sit this looks suspicously like the fruits of an us against them (LEO vs. citizens) attitude, training to see every situation as lethally dangerous without the balance of training that some downright suspicious circumstances turn out to be completely innocent, and a "can I shoot him / her" instead of an "is there any other reasonable way to solve this problem" go / no go criteria for pulling the trigger.

Unless this officer was a total rogue outlier, the PD has a serious philosophy and training problem that needs intensive work to solve to prevent repeats of tragedies like this one.
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Re: Woman killed by FT Worth PD officer

#90

Post by WildBill » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:12 pm

Excaliber wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:14 am
There's also a little thing called a doorbell that could have sorted the situation out right quick. If that doesn't work, there's also the old fashioned cop technique called "knocking" on the door.
:iagree: The doorbell would have been best IMO.
A loud knock, especially at night, gets my suspicions up. Seeing a flashlight shining in the windows at night is even worse.
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