Pump Shotguns Carried by Many Special Forces

[Crash]

To all who replied stating that a shotgun, of any kind, is probably not a good alternative to a handgun or an AR:

I didn't mean to compare a shotgun to any other kind of firearm for defense, just wanted to know opinions comparing a pump to a semi-auto shotgun.
And, I agree that if you have to operate the weapon one-handed, the semi-auto is the best choice. Also, follow-up shots with a semi-auto may be faster, but if there is significant recoil, a "practiced hand" with a pump may be able to cycle the action while it's coming down out of recoil just as fast as a semi-auto can recycle itself and be ready to fire an aimed shot. And, yes, I know that my defense situation is not the same as the tactical situation of SF units, but my main concern with any weapon is its reliability and I'm sure that all the SF units I listed wouldn't be using pumps if they weren't reliable.

Crash

[Deltaboy]

My 870 set up with an 10 Round tube extension and bright green front sight. I am loaded out with alternating buckshot and rifled HP slugs. I used pumps 90% of my life so it second nature to me.

[Medley86]

I keep my old Mossberg 500 20 guage over the bed loaded with #2 buck, some 3", some 2 3/4". Was the first gun I ever got at age 11, pretty sure I could work it in my sleep. I have ran several thousand rounds through it with no real hiccups, and given my complete lack of eyesight without glasses/contacts it would be much easier to point aim it at night with bad vision than a handgun or rifle. Small town though so hopefully won't ever need to find out.

[WTR]

To all who stating that a shotgun, of any kind, is probably not a good alternative to a handgun or an AR:

I think that depending on your habitation situation that a shotgon is a better HD weapon than a pistol or an AR.

[C-dub]

To all who stating that a shotgun, of any kind, is probably not a good alternative to a handgun or an AR:

I think that depending on your habitation situation that a shotgun is a better HD weapon than a pistol or an AR.

Ballistically, I think it goes like the following regarding effectiveness. Excluding all the smaller calibers, of course. Rifle/Carbine - shotgun - handgun

I cannot think of a scenario where a shotgun would be a more effective weapon on an intruder than a rifle/carbine. Unless we might be talking about various small four legged intruders.

[carlson1]

Scenario:
You are a sleep in your bedroom. An intruder breaks in with a knife. He is 15 feet from you. You have a chance to take only one shot. What weapon do you want to shoot the intruder with?

Me....Shotgun!

[C-dub]

Scenario:
You are a sleep in your bedroom. An intruder breaks in with a knife. He is 15 feet from you. You have a chance to take only one shot. What weapon do you want to shoot the intruder with?

Me....Shotgun!

Okay, but why?

[Pawpaw]

To all who stating that a shotgun, of any kind, is probably not a good alternative to a handgun or an AR:

I think that depending on your habitation situation that a shotgun is a better HD weapon than a pistol or an AR.

Ballistically, I think it goes like the following regarding effectiveness. Excluding all the smaller calibers, of course. Rifle/Carbine - shotgun - handgun

I cannot think of a scenario where a shotgun would be a more effective weapon on an intruder than a rifle/carbine. Unless we might be talking about various small four legged intruders.

One hit from my shotgun, loaded with #1 buck, delivers 15 .30 cal lead balls. That will beat one hit from any caliber rifle.

Rifles are good for distance. At short range they're good at boring a hole completely through an intruder, and will leave a pretty impressive wound cavity.

Buckshot removes meat and bone.

[carlson1]

Scenario:
You are a sleep in your bedroom. An intruder breaks in with a knife. He is 15 feet from you. You have a chance to take only one shot. What weapon do you want to shoot the intruder with?

Me....Shotgun!

Okay, but why?

One shot is .32 cal 8 pellets (some 15 pellets) in the kill zone. Proper ammo in 15' the shotgun only spreads about an 1". Great Big Hole!
With one shot from a .45 dead center intruder has a good chance of having enough strength to keep coming. (your stabbed)
With one shot from a .223 dead center intruder has a fair chance of having enough strength to keep coming. (your stabbed)
With one shot from a 12 gauge or 20 gauge even dead center intruder has a very slim chance to keep coming. (you have blood on your carpet)
A great round I have found because of another thread on the Forum is Federal LE132-1B.

[C-dub]

Ballistic gel testing on #8, #4, #1, 00, and 000

Whoa on the 000 buck!

[The Annoyed Man]

I have a Mossberg 590A1 and love it. It has an 8 round tube, and I upgraded the sights and the safety switch. I really appreciate that it is pretty much ambidextrous, particularly with the position of the safety. I used a tritium inserted Big Dot front sight, and a nice ghost ring rear sight mounted on a rail, which can also accommodate a RDS. I finally fired it for the first time just a few weeks ago. While I never did short stroke it, it did require more effort to cycle the action than I would have thought, which meant that, until I got more used to it, I actually had to momentarily focus my attention on the pump stroke instead of on the target until the next round was loaded. The gun was properly lubed and clean at the time, but perhaps pump action Mossbergs require a break-in period to loosen up a little bit. I will be bringing this thing to the range with me regularly from now on to accelerate that process.

It is true that semi auto shotguns are easy to shoot, but in my personal experience, they are not infallible......particularly when not yet broken in......and mine is a Benelli also. The first time I took my SBE II dove hunting, I had a number of malfunctions using 2-3/4" #8 (or were they #7-1/2?) shotshells. The manner of malfunction was double-feeding. It would try to pull two shells from the magazine instead of one, end to end, and they would entirely lock up the action with the bolt retracted. It was a royal pain in......something......to get the jam cleared each time. The gun was brand new at the time and had been unfired before that trip. I had disassembled and cleaned and lubed it before going on the trip, but perhaps not enough. After a thorough application of LOTS of lube in the field, the gun finally began to cycle more reliably. But even though Benelli says it will shoot 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/2" shells, it manifestly did not like 2-3/4" shells........which means that the next time I go hunting, I'll probably buy 3" shells....which cost more.....etc., etc., etc. One of the other hunters in camp told me (don't know if it's true or not) that the SBE II shotguns had a reputation for reliability issues. I hope not. In the end, I put it aside and started using the over and under I had also brought along, which went "bang!" every time I pulled the trigger. Maybe the SBE II will become more reliable after I've put another couple of hundred rounds through it. I wonder if other SBE II owners have had the same experience with theirs. Granted, it's a hunting shotgun and not a tactical one, but the experienced soured me on semi auto shotguns for home defense. At the time I bought my 590A1, I was looking at both it and the Mossberg 930 tactical semi auto. The experience tipped me toward the pump action.

But I would be comfortable staking my life on the Mossberg out in the world, and it sits in the "war gun" side of my safe. The main reason I don't use it for home defense is that I have a suppressed AR15 SBR in .300 Blackout which is lighter and a LOT quieter to shoot inside the confines of a house. With subsonics, I can shoot without hearing protection in doors, and I also keep a couple 30-round mags full of supersonics for longer range use. But before I built that rifle, my Mossberg held the home-defense place of honor.

[C-dub]

That is odd about the Benelli TAM. I have mostly fired 2.75" #7.5 and #8 through mine without any mechanical malfunctions.

[The Annoyed Man]

That is odd about the Benelli TAM. I have mostly fired 2.75" #7.5 and #8 through mine without any mechanical malfunctions.

I think that yours has a different action system than mine, which may account for the better reliability. I've seen yours (as you know) a number of times, and I've never seen it malfunction. We can compare them the next time we do a skeet day.

[C-dub]

Scenario:
You are a sleep in your bedroom. An intruder breaks in with a knife. He is 15 feet from you. You have a chance to take only one shot. What weapon do you want to shoot the intruder with?

Me....Shotgun!

Unfortunately, this is one of the reasons I'm up so early this morning after being up so late last night. I kept thinking about this while lying in bed and realized something.

If I'm asleep and I wake up in time to see someone coming through my bedroom door there is no way I'll be able to grab any long gun and fire it quick enough. The only gun I'd be able to get into action that quickly will be the handgun with night-sights on my nightstand. The night-sights make it easier to locate quickly since I have it oriented so that they face my pillow.

However, for me, if I hear a bump in the night and have the time to get out of bed to investigate, I'll throw on my electronic muffs, also on the nightstand, grab the carbine, and turn on the Eo. With my daughter in another room and other animals in the house, if there is an intruder, I want a little more precision than a shotgun.

For a single person or married couple, without anyone else in the house, I'm beginning to agree that a properly loaded shotgun is going be a top choice to get the job done with the first round.

[Jusme]

I think the whole issue comes down to what works for you, what you feel most competent with, and your individual home defense plan.
As most of you may know, I only recently acquired my first AR, I have less that 200 rounds through it, mostly from a rest, getting used to the action, sighting it in and becoming more familiar with it. Could I potentially use it as a HD gun? Sure, but my confidence level, and overall competency with it, is minimal to say the least, I haven't done any tactical training with it, haven't worked clearing my house with it, and don't have a light mounted on it for seeing things that go bump in the night.
My Mossberg, on the other hand, has seen at least 3500 rounds through it with probably an equal number of target/dove loads, and HD rounds, #00 buck #1 buck and slugs. I feel very confident with it, I can manipulate all of the actions, safety, tactical reloads etc. in complete darkness, and under simulated stress situations, I have a light attached to be sure that I can see my potential target at night. I regularly practice with it in the dark (especially after Mrs. Jusme rearranges the furniture) I know what my POI, vs POA will be at distances of 10 feet, to 25 yards. Overall, my confidence in my ability to get my shotgun into play if needed, is as high as it can be.

With that said, what works for me may not work for you. I'm sure that my house layout differs from yours, the number of other people in the house that have to be accounted for, as well as their location, varies. And most of all, what you are comfortable, and confident with, will be different. I will never tell someone that their choice of firearm for HD is incorrect, everyone will have to make that choice for themselves.
BG can be, and have been stopped, with a variety of firearms, ammo, and shot placement, my only suggestion would be try different firearms, see what works for you in a dark house, have a plan for your family if someone should break in, so that everyone know where they will be and where you will be. Practice, practice, practice, you will only react as well as you have trained, especially waking from a deep sleep in the dark. JMHO