teraph wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 21, 2019 11:11 am
Does anyone on here have a Kriss Vector in 45ACP?
I was looking at getting another PCC for the house (already have a SUB2000 that likes to live in the Jeep), and I figured 45ACP would be really easy to suppress.
What are y'alls thoughts?
experience with trying to suppress a Sub-2000 ....
I have one
pistol caliber suppressor—a Rugged Obsidian 45. I typically keep it mounted to a Glock 17, but I wanted to see how effective it would be on my Sub-2000, using subsonics. I already had a 9mm accessory piston for it, and fixed barrel spacers for both caliber pistons. I bought a 9mm endcap for it and put that on. I also installed the 9mm fixed barrel spacer over the 9mm piston, and I mounted it on the Sub-2000. The exact same setup, minus the fixed barrel spacer, works beautifully on the G17.
It’s worth mentioning at this point that my Sub-2000 has never
shot to point of aim, even with the front sight post adjusted all the way over to the left. I even mounted a Primary Arms RDS on it, and had to crank the windage ALL the way over to the right, and still
could not align POA with POI. POI is always quite low and left of POA by several inches at 25 yards, and it would be Blanca the abuse of the word "tight" to describe the group sizes. A shotgun would have been better. But, I figured that little could go wrong in the 8.5" between the barrel muzzle, and the 9mm suppressor endcap. Boy was I wrong.
Within a very few rounds ... like fewer than 10-15.... the Sub2K started key-holing at 15 yards. Upon examination, there had been a massive
bullet strike of the endcap, effectively destroying it, bulging it outward and turning the exit hole into an oblong. Praise Jesus, the baffles—which accommodate a .45 caliber bullet—were not damaged, else a very expensive suppressor would have been trashed. In the end, I remounted the 45 caliber endcap, and it wasn’t noticeably any noisier with the slightly larger exit hole. (I do this with my rifle suppressors too. They’re all .308 caliber, but I run them on both .308 and 5.56 weapons, and it doesn’t seem to matter. They still suppress very well either way.)
On a separate occasion, using the same suppressor setup and ammo, (except with the 45 caliber endcap... the 9mm endcap is a $65 part, so I won’t be replacing it anytime soon), but with the suppressor mounted to my Ruger PC9 this time, the combination shot to point of aim with acceptable group sizes, both with and without the suppressor.
The ammo used in both range sessions was regular old American Eagle 147 grain subsonic ball....so reasonably good quality ammo. The ammo didn’t cause this. The suppressor didn’t cause it, as it works just fine on a different, better carbine. It wasn’t me. I’m no Carlos Hathcock, but I’m generally a decent shot with a long gun. It wasn’t the PA RDS, as that's now mounted to my PC9 and works great. There’s something scootchie about a carbine that is THAT
inaccurate, even at handgun distances. When I first got my Sub2K, I used to keep it in the back of my vehicle for "something arises"; and several
times I’ve carried it into a 30.06-posted hospital in a messenger bag to be there for the birth of my grandkids. But in the end, nothing really worked to make it even close to reliably and dependably accurate, and it ended up sitting in my safe for a long time until I bought the Ruger....at which point I gave it to my ex-gunsmith son. If he can sort it out, he can keep it. I’m happy with the Ruger.
I realize that others may not have the same experience with their Sub-2000s that I had with mine, and that’s fine. Mine
was a real POS. If you can’t reliably hit even close to where you’re aiming with a carbine at handgun distances, that’s not a gun you should be using in a self defense situation. So I gave up on mine. The Ruger is larger and heavier in every respect than the Sub-2000, and even though it’s a takedown rifle that fits in a relatively
small backpack (it's not that
small), it doesn’t pack down as small as the Kel-Tec does. In my admittedly limited experience with PCCs, the Sub-2000 is an excellent idea
that has been poorly executed
. I’d not buy another one.
A Gen3 Striborg is enticing. But in the end, a LAW Tactical folding adapter will turn an AR15 pistol or SBR into a nearly equally easily concealed firearm of greater power and accuracy....and I already have unused AR receiver sets and LPKs in the safe, and two already-built short barreled AR uppers. So I can throw together a folding stock pistol lower for another $240—the price of the folding stock adapter. So that’s what I’m probably going to do, and I'll keep the PC9 as a fun gun with some limited SD/tactical uses.