Winstar parking lot car meet?

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baldeagle
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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#16

Post by baldeagle » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:19 pm

Scratch Winstar off my places to go.
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John Galt
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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#17

Post by John Galt » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:12 pm

gentle4ug wrote:Ok folks I am an oklahoma instructor and these questions come up all the time. After extensive research, I have the right answer for Choctaw Nation owned property, including all their casinos. For the Choctaw Casinos, the right answer can be found at the following link in chapter 53 of the Choctaw Nation criminal code. The laws pretty much mirror Oklahoma state law. All posted buildings are off limits for carry. (remember in oklahoma any and all signs count) Parking lots are excluded and may not be posted. There is even civil remedies for any government or business entity that tries.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/choctaw-msldigi ... iginal.pdf

Back to the original question. The Chickasaw Nation has been less than cooperative on providing any written answers. Email correspondance and phone calls have only yielded their zero tolerance policy. I suspect that getting caught on their property with a concealed handgun anywhere could in a wide range of actions depending on who you deal with and their attitude. Remember they are a sovereign nation and without their own written code, they could fall back on federal law, state law, or just make stuff up. Any court actions would begin in their court system with the appeal process thru the federal court system.

My best advice when going to winstar is leave your gun at home. If not you are taking a risk with a wide range of potential outcomes. If you enjoy the casino amenities, take your business to Choctaw.

As a footnote for your Texas MPA friends, there is NO MPA in Oklahoma. Get caught with a loaded handgun in you vehicle without a valid permit, we honor all state issued permits, you will be cited, fined, and your gun confiscated never to return.
Thanks for your advice.

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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#18

Post by Grundy1133 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:57 pm

gentle4ug wrote:Ok folks I am an oklahoma instructor and these questions come up all the time. After extensive research, I have the right answer for Choctaw Nation owned property, including all their casinos. For the Choctaw Casinos, the right answer can be found at the following link in chapter 53 of the Choctaw Nation criminal code. The laws pretty much mirror Oklahoma state law. All posted buildings are off limits for carry. (remember in oklahoma any and all signs count) Parking lots are excluded and may not be posted. There is even civil remedies for any government or business entity that tries.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/choctaw-msldigi ... iginal.pdf

Back to the original question. The Chickasaw Nation has been less than cooperative on providing any written answers. Email correspondance and phone calls have only yielded their zero tolerance policy. I suspect that getting caught on their property with a concealed handgun anywhere could in a wide range of actions depending on who you deal with and their attitude. Remember they are a sovereign nation and without their own written code, they could fall back on federal law, state law, or just make stuff up. Any court actions would begin in their court system with the appeal process thru the federal court system.

My best advice when going to winstar is leave your gun at home. If not you are taking a risk with a wide range of potential outcomes. If you enjoy the casino amenities, take your business to Choctaw.

As a footnote for your Texas MPA friends, there is NO MPA in Oklahoma. Get caught with a loaded handgun in you vehicle without a valid permit, we honor all state issued permits, you will be cited, fined, and your gun confiscated never to return.
Actually, instead of leaving your gun at home, just dont go to oklahoma... problem solved. lol :txflag:
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Oldgringo
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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#19

Post by Oldgringo » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:21 pm

baldeagle wrote:Scratch Winstar off my places to go.
Hey!

The white eyes screwed then out of their lands, their lifestyles, their beliefs and their freedom, it's their turn to fix the rules on the meager lands the white eyes so generously gave back to them. Stay home, if you don't like it....or go to Walmart!

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Grundy1133
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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#20

Post by Grundy1133 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:03 pm

Oldgringo wrote:
baldeagle wrote:Scratch Winstar off my places to go.
Hey!

The white eyes screwed then out of their lands, their lifestyles, their beliefs and their freedom, it's their turn to fix the rules on the meager lands the white eyes so generously gave back to them. Stay home, if you don't like it....or go to Walmart!
im pretty sure thats what "scratch Winstar off my places to go" means... lol
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bigtek
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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#21

Post by bigtek » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:02 pm

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Fa la la la la la la la la!

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Grundy1133
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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#22

Post by Grundy1133 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:27 pm

:iagree: haha you can thank john for that ;)
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Soccerdad1995
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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#23

Post by Soccerdad1995 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:55 pm

Since it has been resurrected anyway.....

I went to Winstar last Thanksgiving. Saw a sign on one of the entrances so I returned my gun to my vehicle (my read of the Legalheat app was that all signs are enforceable in OK). I had not considered that they are a separate, sovereign nation. But given that they are, it does raise some interesting questions.

If the tribal police had become aware of my carry, assuming that is in fact illegal per their laws, and I managed to cross the tribal border back into the US, would the US government extradite me back to the reservation to face charges? Same goes for anything else that might be illegal under the tribe's laws but not under US or relevant state laws.

Someone mentioned up-thread that non-tribal members cannot be criminally charged by the tribe, but that they could have the state LEO's arrest you for violation of state laws. Does the state of OK set laws on tribal land? If so, then they aren't really sovereign, now are they. If not, then what state law would I have violated? This is similar to me robbing a store in Finland. As far as I know, it is not against US law to rob a store in Finland.

How does all this work on highways that cross sovereign native lands? Am I violating US law if I commit a crime on such highways (speeding, DUI, reckless driving, etc), or am I violating tribal law? Or do they get around this question entirely by ceding the land under the highway to the US and the respective state that they border.

It just seems like these places are sometimes sovereign, and sometimes not.
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Reset Button
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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#24

Post by Reset Button » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:54 pm

Somebody born on a reservation is a U.S. citizen and can vote in U.S. elections. Generally speaking, a Federal Indian Reservation is land owned by the U.S. Government and held in trust for the tribe. They are not "Free and Independent States" to borrow a phrase from the U.S. Constitution. They are sovereign only to the extent established by Treaty and Federal law.

Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian Tribe, 435 U.S. 191 (1978) limits the ability of tribes to try and punish non-Indians. Under this decision, they generally do not have jurisdiction to prosecute non-Indians. However, the state and federal governments have limited, and concurrent, criminal jurisdiction with the tribes. So as a non-Indian you can be prosecuted for violating state or federal law on a reservation. For example, if you're stopped for speeding on a highway through a reservation, the tribal police can't ticket you but they can detain you while you wait for a state trooper to ticket you.

Be polite and you'll probably just get a warning for minor violations. Be a jerk or commit a major offense, and they'll spend the time waiting for a state trooper to deal with you.

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Grundy1133
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Re: Winstar parking lot car meet?

#25

Post by Grundy1133 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:44 pm

I'd rather just not go to winstar... cause i mean for starters its in oklahoma... am i right? and second i've never gambled before in my life and if i wanted to throw away money i'd buy a boat. :lol: but that is interesting how their laws work in tandem with state and federal laws.
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