IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

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OneGun
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#16

Post by OneGun »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
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anygunanywhere
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#17

Post by anygunanywhere »

OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." Mike Vanderboegh

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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#18

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

anygunanywhere wrote:
OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
He was pointing out a provision in the Bill. Why the sarcastic comment?

Chas.
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#19

Post by anygunanywhere »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
He was pointing out a provision in the Bill. Why the sarcastic comment?

Chas.
A provision of the bill that requires currently lawful firearms owners under 21 to transfer ownership of their firearms to others or face criminal charges is still an infringement. My remarks were not directed at the poster, they were directed at the legislation.
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." Mike Vanderboegh

"The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." – Ayn Rand
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#20

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

anygunanywhere wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
He was pointing out a provision in the Bill. Why the sarcastic comment?

Chas.
A provision of the bill that requires currently lawful firearms owners under 21 to transfer ownership of their firearms to others or face criminal charges is still an infringement. My remarks were not directed at the poster, they were directed at the legislation.
My apologies; I read it different.

Chas.
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anygunanywhere
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#21

Post by anygunanywhere »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
He was pointing out a provision in the Bill. Why the sarcastic comment?

Chas.
A provision of the bill that requires currently lawful firearms owners under 21 to transfer ownership of their firearms to others or face criminal charges is still an infringement. My remarks were not directed at the poster, they were directed at the legislation.
My apologies; I read it different.

Chas.
:tiphat:
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"The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." – Ayn Rand
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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#22

Post by Grundy1133 »

rotor wrote:Grundy1133, I think a lot of people think their guns are registered when they buy one in Texas. But, you need to get out and buy some more guns if you haven't bought one in 8 years. Can never have too many (guns and ammo).
the last tie i bought a gun was 8-10 years ago and i had to fill out paperwork and what not so i just assumed they still made you register them. apparently they dont make u register them anymore. cool.
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#23

Post by SewTexas »

that would still mean that if a young couple had started a home the gun would be out of their home.

or if a young lady were out on her own, she now has no means of protection, say from an abuser. This law meant to "protect lives" could cost lives.
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#24

Post by bblhd672 »

SewTexas wrote:that would still mean that if a young couple had started a home the gun would be out of their home.

or if a young lady were out on her own, she now has no means of protection, say from an abuser. This law meant to "protect lives" could cost lives.
Illinois isn’t known for common sense legislation.
The left lies about everything. Truth is a liberal value, and truth is a conservative value, but it has never been a left-wing value. People on the left say whatever advances their immediate agenda. Power is their moral lodestar; therefore, truth is always subservient to it. - Dennis Prager

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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#25

Post by apostate »

Since when did gun control protect lives?

Wait... make that "innocent lives" because victim disarmament does seem to make life safer for evildoers.
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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#26

Post by thatguyoverthere »

rotor wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:...its bad enough they fingerprint us and put us in a database like sexual predators JUST to exercise our constitutional 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms, but every tim we buy a gun they put us in ANOTHER database so they can keep track of who owns what...
Do you have proof that this is being done?
Maybe it sort of depends on what your definition of "registration" and "database" are.

If I'm not mistaken (and please correct me if I am), when you buy a handgun from an FFL dealer, that dealer is required to keep a record indicating what gun was purchased and who purchased it. The dealer is required to keep that information for as long as he is in business. If he goes out of business, the dealer is required to transfer those gun sales records to the ATF.

In fact, records are required to be kept at every stage of transfer (manufacturer to distributor to wholesaler to retailer to end purchaser).

If a gun that was used in a crime is recovered, the Feds will contact the manufacturer to begin to trace the gun down to the retail dealer, who will then have to furnish their end sales info of that gun to the police. Granted, that only works for a criminal investigation. I don't believe the Feds are supposed to be able to just go fishing for information.

So, even though it may not be readily accessible from some bureaucrat's desktop computer (theoretically, right now), the information is there and is available. Of course, that only works for the original purchaser. If that original purchaser later sells the gun in a private sale, no records are required (at least in Texas) (at least until we get "universal background checks").
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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#27

Post by Grundy1133 »

thatguyoverthere wrote:
rotor wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:...its bad enough they fingerprint us and put us in a database like sexual predators JUST to exercise our constitutional 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms, but every tim we buy a gun they put us in ANOTHER database so they can keep track of who owns what...
Do you have proof that this is being done?
Maybe it sort of depends on what your definition of "registration" and "database" are.

If I'm not mistaken (and please correct me if I am), when you buy a handgun from an FFL dealer, that dealer is required to keep a record indicating what gun was purchased and who purchased it. The dealer is required to keep that information for as long as he is in business. If he goes out of business, the dealer is required to transfer those gun sales records to the ATF.

In fact, records are required to be kept at every stage of transfer (manufacturer to distributor to wholesaler to retailer to end purchaser).

If a gun that was used in a crime is recovered, the Feds will contact the manufacturer to begin to trace the gun down to the retail dealer, who will then have to furnish their end sales info of that gun to the police. Granted, that only works for a criminal investigation. I don't believe the Feds are supposed to be able to just go fishing for information.

So, even though it may not be readily accessible from some bureaucrat's desktop computer (theoretically, right now), the information is there and is available. Of course, that only works for the original purchaser. If that original purchaser later sells the gun in a private sale, no records are required (at least in Texas) (at least until we get "universal background checks").
YES this :iagree: somewhere someplace there is record of you buying your gun...
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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#28

Post by The Annoyed Man »

Grundy1133 wrote:
rotor wrote:Grundy1133, I think a lot of people think their guns are registered when they buy one in Texas. But, you need to get out and buy some more guns if you haven't bought one in 8 years. Can never have too many (guns and ammo).
the last tie i bought a gun was 8-10 years ago and i had to fill out paperwork and what not so i just assumed they still made you register them. apparently they dont make u register them anymore. cool.
Never had gun registration in Texas....not now....not 8-10 years ago. But everyone everywhere has to fill out a 4473 if they purchase a gun from an FFL.
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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#29

Post by Grundy1133 »

The Annoyed Man wrote: Never had gun registration in Texas....not now....not 8-10 years ago. But everyone everywhere has to fill out a 4473 if they purchase a gun from an FFL.
well as "thatguyoverthere" wrote,
thatguyoverthere wrote: Maybe it sort of depends on what your definition of "registration" and "database" are.

If I'm not mistaken (and please correct me if I am), when you buy a handgun from an FFL dealer, that dealer is required to keep a record indicating what gun was purchased and who purchased it. The dealer is required to keep that information for as long as he is in business. If he goes out of business, the dealer is required to transfer those gun sales records to the ATF.

In fact, records are required to be kept at every stage of transfer (manufacturer to distributor to wholesaler to retailer to end purchaser).

If a gun that was used in a crime is recovered, the Feds will contact the manufacturer to begin to trace the gun down to the retail dealer, who will then have to furnish their end sales info of that gun to the police. Granted, that only works for a criminal investigation. I don't believe the Feds are supposed to be able to just go fishing for information.

So, even though it may not be readily accessible from some bureaucrat's desktop computer (theoretically, right now), the information is there and is available. Of course, that only works for the original purchaser. If that original purchaser later sells the gun in a private sale, no records are required (at least in Texas) (at least until we get "universal background checks").
I assume thats what that 4473 form is.
from wikipedia: "A Firearms Transaction Record, or Form 4473, is a form promulgated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in the United States Department of Justice that is filled out when a person purchases a firearm from a Federal Firearms License (FFL) holder (such as a gun shop) ... Such Forms 4473 must be retained for at least 20 years and after that period may be submitted to ATF."
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#30

Post by Grundy1133 »

to me thats considered a database cause theyre keeping records for 20 years... so in 15 years if they decide to ban guns, the DOJ and ATF know exactly where to go to disarm the USA.
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