IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

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OneGun
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#16

Post by OneGun » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:54 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#17

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:13 pm

OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
1911s should be carried openly as God and John Moses Browning (PBUH) intended them to be.
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#18

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:29 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:
OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
He was pointing out a provision in the Bill. Why the sarcastic comment?

Chas.
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#19

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:37 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
He was pointing out a provision in the Bill. Why the sarcastic comment?

Chas.
A provision of the bill that requires currently lawful firearms owners under 21 to transfer ownership of their firearms to others or face criminal charges is still an infringement. My remarks were not directed at the poster, they were directed at the legislation.
1911s should be carried openly as God and John Moses Browning (PBUH) intended them to be.
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#20

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:49 pm

anygunanywhere wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
He was pointing out a provision in the Bill. Why the sarcastic comment?

Chas.
A provision of the bill that requires currently lawful firearms owners under 21 to transfer ownership of their firearms to others or face criminal charges is still an infringement. My remarks were not directed at the poster, they were directed at the legislation.
My apologies; I read it different.

Chas.
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anygunanywhere
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#21

Post by anygunanywhere » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:07 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:
OneGun wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:Contrary to the thread's title, the bill has only passed the Illinois House. It still has to pass the Senate and not get a veto from the Governor.

Chas.
Also, I believe the IL bill allows gun owners to transfer ownership to say their parents or other people with a valid FOID card until they are 21.
Well gee, that just makes it okay then. No infringement at all.
He was pointing out a provision in the Bill. Why the sarcastic comment?

Chas.
A provision of the bill that requires currently lawful firearms owners under 21 to transfer ownership of their firearms to others or face criminal charges is still an infringement. My remarks were not directed at the poster, they were directed at the legislation.
My apologies; I read it different.

Chas.
:tiphat:
1911s should be carried openly as God and John Moses Browning (PBUH) intended them to be.
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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#22

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:26 pm

rotor wrote:Grundy1133, I think a lot of people think their guns are registered when they buy one in Texas. But, you need to get out and buy some more guns if you haven't bought one in 8 years. Can never have too many (guns and ammo).
the last tie i bought a gun was 8-10 years ago and i had to fill out paperwork and what not so i just assumed they still made you register them. apparently they dont make u register them anymore. cool.
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#23

Post by SewTexas » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:27 pm

that would still mean that if a young couple had started a home the gun would be out of their home.

or if a young lady were out on her own, she now has no means of protection, say from an abuser. This law meant to "protect lives" could cost lives.
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Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir

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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#24

Post by bblhd672 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:57 pm

SewTexas wrote:that would still mean that if a young couple had started a home the gun would be out of their home.

or if a young lady were out on her own, she now has no means of protection, say from an abuser. This law meant to "protect lives" could cost lives.
Illinois isn’t known for common sense legislation.


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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#25

Post by apostate » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:06 pm

Since when did gun control protect lives?

Wait... make that "innocent lives" because victim disarmament does seem to make life safer for evildoers.

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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#26

Post by thatguyoverthere » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:29 pm

rotor wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:...its bad enough they fingerprint us and put us in a database like sexual predators JUST to exercise our constitutional 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms, but every tim we buy a gun they put us in ANOTHER database so they can keep track of who owns what...
Do you have proof that this is being done?
Maybe it sort of depends on what your definition of "registration" and "database" are.

If I'm not mistaken (and please correct me if I am), when you buy a handgun from an FFL dealer, that dealer is required to keep a record indicating what gun was purchased and who purchased it. The dealer is required to keep that information for as long as he is in business. If he goes out of business, the dealer is required to transfer those gun sales records to the ATF.

In fact, records are required to be kept at every stage of transfer (manufacturer to distributor to wholesaler to retailer to end purchaser).

If a gun that was used in a crime is recovered, the Feds will contact the manufacturer to begin to trace the gun down to the retail dealer, who will then have to furnish their end sales info of that gun to the police. Granted, that only works for a criminal investigation. I don't believe the Feds are supposed to be able to just go fishing for information.

So, even though it may not be readily accessible from some bureaucrat's desktop computer (theoretically, right now), the information is there and is available. Of course, that only works for the original purchaser. If that original purchaser later sells the gun in a private sale, no records are required (at least in Texas) (at least until we get "universal background checks").

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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#27

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:34 pm

thatguyoverthere wrote:
rotor wrote:
Grundy1133 wrote:...its bad enough they fingerprint us and put us in a database like sexual predators JUST to exercise our constitutional 2nd amendment right to keep and bear arms, but every tim we buy a gun they put us in ANOTHER database so they can keep track of who owns what...
Do you have proof that this is being done?
Maybe it sort of depends on what your definition of "registration" and "database" are.

If I'm not mistaken (and please correct me if I am), when you buy a handgun from an FFL dealer, that dealer is required to keep a record indicating what gun was purchased and who purchased it. The dealer is required to keep that information for as long as he is in business. If he goes out of business, the dealer is required to transfer those gun sales records to the ATF.

In fact, records are required to be kept at every stage of transfer (manufacturer to distributor to wholesaler to retailer to end purchaser).

If a gun that was used in a crime is recovered, the Feds will contact the manufacturer to begin to trace the gun down to the retail dealer, who will then have to furnish their end sales info of that gun to the police. Granted, that only works for a criminal investigation. I don't believe the Feds are supposed to be able to just go fishing for information.

So, even though it may not be readily accessible from some bureaucrat's desktop computer (theoretically, right now), the information is there and is available. Of course, that only works for the original purchaser. If that original purchaser later sells the gun in a private sale, no records are required (at least in Texas) (at least until we get "universal background checks").
YES this :iagree: somewhere someplace there is record of you buying your gun...
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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#28

Post by The Annoyed Man » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:00 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:
rotor wrote:Grundy1133, I think a lot of people think their guns are registered when they buy one in Texas. But, you need to get out and buy some more guns if you haven't bought one in 8 years. Can never have too many (guns and ammo).
the last tie i bought a gun was 8-10 years ago and i had to fill out paperwork and what not so i just assumed they still made you register them. apparently they dont make u register them anymore. cool.
Never had gun registration in Texas....not now....not 8-10 years ago. But everyone everywhere has to fill out a 4473 if they purchase a gun from an FFL.
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Re: Confiscation: State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#29

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:04 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: Never had gun registration in Texas....not now....not 8-10 years ago. But everyone everywhere has to fill out a 4473 if they purchase a gun from an FFL.
well as "thatguyoverthere" wrote,
thatguyoverthere wrote: Maybe it sort of depends on what your definition of "registration" and "database" are.

If I'm not mistaken (and please correct me if I am), when you buy a handgun from an FFL dealer, that dealer is required to keep a record indicating what gun was purchased and who purchased it. The dealer is required to keep that information for as long as he is in business. If he goes out of business, the dealer is required to transfer those gun sales records to the ATF.

In fact, records are required to be kept at every stage of transfer (manufacturer to distributor to wholesaler to retailer to end purchaser).

If a gun that was used in a crime is recovered, the Feds will contact the manufacturer to begin to trace the gun down to the retail dealer, who will then have to furnish their end sales info of that gun to the police. Granted, that only works for a criminal investigation. I don't believe the Feds are supposed to be able to just go fishing for information.

So, even though it may not be readily accessible from some bureaucrat's desktop computer (theoretically, right now), the information is there and is available. Of course, that only works for the original purchaser. If that original purchaser later sells the gun in a private sale, no records are required (at least in Texas) (at least until we get "universal background checks").
I assume thats what that 4473 form is.
from wikipedia: "A Firearms Transaction Record, or Form 4473, is a form promulgated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) in the United States Department of Justice that is filled out when a person purchases a firearm from a Federal Firearms License (FFL) holder (such as a gun shop) ... Such Forms 4473 must be retained for at least 20 years and after that period may be submitted to ATF."
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Re: IL: Confiscation - State Congress Orders Once Legal Owners to Turn in Guns

#30

Post by Grundy1133 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:10 pm

to me thats considered a database cause theyre keeping records for 20 years... so in 15 years if they decide to ban guns, the DOJ and ATF know exactly where to go to disarm the USA.
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