flintknapper wrote:If Campus Carry passes...there is something I would like to see happen.
After an appropriate period of time (no issues, events, accidents), I'd like to see a concerted effort made to "Call Out" these folks (fear mongers) in a very public way. I don't mean in a such a fashion that we appear to be gloating, but rather as a demonstrative rebuttal to their past claims and fears.
And I mean REALLY keep the pressure up. The public needs to see and hear this...and we should not be timid about exposing it.
I've been thinking about this lately too and 100% agree that it should be done, not to gloat but to inform and document.
I may be in a position within a few years where I can speak and write freely; if so, I am planning on writing just such an article for the student newspapers of the Texas schools I've attended. I encourage others to keep this in mind and consider doing something similar in the future.
I really liked the statement that we(chl'ers) would end up shooting each other as if we'd be in an old style circle with the BG in the center. I doubt it would be that hard to tell who it the BG vs GG when everyone's hitting the floor or running for cover while ONE guy is standing and doing it unthinkable task.
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bigmoney wrote:I really liked the statement that we(chl'ers) would end up shooting each other as if we'd be in an old style circle with the BG in the center. I doubt it would be that hard to tell who it the BG vs GG when everyone's hitting the floor or running for cover while ONE guy is standing and doing it unthinkable task.
Distinguishing good guy from bad guy has its challenges, but these are successfully handled by thousands of officers on thousands of calls in this country every day. They make very few unfixable errors considering the number of very difficult situations they encounter.
The key to doing this successfully is training. This is a word some administrators don't like to talk about because it costs money, but the reality is an agency can either pay for training up front or pay for litigation and large damage awards later. There is no such thing as a simple or low cost replacement for training. That's just the way it is. An administrator who disregards this does so at his own and his agency's peril.
Excaliber
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it." - Jeff Cooper
I am not a lawyer. Nothing in any of my posts should be construed as legal or professional advice.
Excaliber wrote: ...
Distinguishing good guy from bad guy has its challenges, but these are successfully handled by thousands of officers on thousands of calls in this country every day. They make very few unfixable errors considering the number of very difficult situations they encounter.
'zackly.
Add to this that there are thousands of citizen self-defense shootings each year, with remarkably few incidents of hitting the wrong person, armed or not, and not getting shot themselves. This includes school situations like the Pearl, Miss high school, etc.
I go to Texas State University, and I will say outright, I am for more concerned about accidentally getting shot by a UPD officer than a CHL'er. The cops are an absolute joke, and appear more to be security guards than actual police officers, and are as nervous as such. The idea that concealed carry is going to create some massive shootout seems silly too, I don't know about you guys, but when I sat through my CHL class the one thing I learned is that If I am going to draw my weapon, no matter if I am in the right, I better be ready to deal with the ramifications. If there is a shooting on my campus, my first objective is to safely get myself out of the building, or my family/loved ones if they happen to be with me. Other than that, my weapon will come out only if there is an armed assailant in my way, for the simple fact that these people that right these articles all say the exact same thing in every place that has been working towards a CHL program, and what happens...nothing, in most places the violent crime rate does begin to drop though. Google gunfacts, for a great book with all the statistics related to guns in the U.S. CHL holders are not cowboys, they are people that simply believe that they should be responsible for their own survival rather than be that guy in the Live 27 documentary about virginia tech who was shot 5 times and had to play possum while praying that someone would rescue him, that is what some people choose, I choose to not be the one on the floor full of bullets, or the one being shot-at by shaky UPD officers who are probably going to be far more terrified of the situation in front of them than I am.
flintknapper wrote:If Campus Carry passes...there is something I would like to see happen.
After an appropriate period of time (no issues, events, accidents), I'd like to see a concerted effort made to "Call Out" these folks (fear mongers) in a very public way. I don't mean in a such a fashion that we appear to be gloating, but rather as a demonstrative rebuttal to their past claims and fears.
And I mean REALLY keep the pressure up. The public needs to see and hear this...and we should not be timid about exposing it.
Heck, I think that would make a very effective point right now, for the current campus carry debate. One by one, quote different Official naysayers from pre-1995 Texas CHL, and follow up quotes from them about how they were wrong. Ditto for Florida, ditto for everywhere else you can garner the information.
If people can't connect those dots to the current campus carry hand-wringing, I don't know what else would help them.
I'll quit carrying a gun when they make murder and armed robbery illegal
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It will happen, there will be those that have sat here with a clear head, and an actual understanding of how CHL laws affect the general populous, that will say exact thing that we are saying, it will not be put on the news, it will not be brought to any of the nay-sayers attention. It has been that way over the entire nation, the facts don't lie, but the the information that is promulgated to the general public will only involve those few that have managed to slip by the checks in place to secure a CHL and cause a national tragedy. You would be shocked at how many people don't have a clue to the actual crime statistics of those with CHLS or the fact that they are posted on the TXDPS website. There was an article in the texas state newspaper that stated something crazy that 1 in 7 people around you would have a handgun if this law were to be passed. Not only is this laughable, but is completely bizarre considering the actual CHL to population ratio in Texas. The vast majority of college students are under the age of 21, or are ineligible until 25 or later, but this doesn't matter. What they want you to think is that everyone is going to have a gun, that everyone in college is mentally unstable, that somehow removing this right from the people will prevent a "shootout at the O.k Corral" but none of them know what responsibility a CHL entails, or understands the legal ramifications that we must face as the few that have taken our rights to the full potential. These people need to be informed, but refuse to be informed, or accept the actual facts, and will continue to do so until they personally go through something that will make them think otherwise, and that is a sad point. They have missed that the difference between a CHL holder and those against them is the simple fact that we understand the world is not all hugs and kisses, that a drug addict typically needs $200+ a day to maintain their habit, that states like California routinely release criminals that should never be on the streets again, and realize that we would rather be able to defend ourselves and never have to, rather than need to and not be able to. These facts are simply not newsworthy, nor important for those in the educational community to express.
Hopefully, someday these are things that we can chance without a dramatic event to push the points through.
