Guns on college campuses - CNN blog

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Guns on college campuses - CNN blog

#1

Post by RPB » Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:55 am

Guns on college campuses
by John Martin, CNN
January 3rd, 2012 10:42 AM ET
http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2 ... -campuses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(CNN) As of the end of last semester, more than 60 members of Liberty University's faculty, staff and students have applied for permission to carry concealed weapons on campus.

The Lynchburg, Virginia, college's Board of Trustees changed the university’s policy on firearms in November. The new policy allows the school's police department to give permission to members of the university community to carry guns under certain conditions. The policy is explained on Liberty University’s website .
More at http://schoolsofthought.blogs.cnn.com/2 ... -campuses/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Guns on college campuses - CNN blog

#2

Post by The Annoyed Man » Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:30 am

I posted the following reply:
Opposition to lawful concealed carry on campus is based on the erroneous supposition that people with concealed carry permits are somehow more likely to be criminals than those without. This blog post cite's the Brady Center as an authority in the matter. But if you look at the Brady Center's website, they plainly state that we are "concealed carry killers." This is in direct contradiction to the facts. People who lawfully obtain a carry permit undergo a background check. The vast majority of those who do not carry a concealed weapon do NOT undergo any kind of background check before being allowed on campus. In the state of Texas, that background check is extremely thorough, and in the state of Texas, this is born out by the fact that CHL holders commit crimes at a small fraction of the general population's criminal tendencies.

I would pose two questions:

1) Exactly what laws actually *prevent* someone from illegally carrying a gun onto a campus? Preventative laws are only effective against the law-abiding. They only restrict the actions of those people from whom one has nothing to fear. On the other hand, preventative laws are completely irrelevant to the criminal, who will carry a gun onto a campus regardless of what the law states.

2) How on earth do you expect to identify someone who is carrying concealed in the first place, whether it is lawful or not? "Concealed" means "concealed." Every day of every year, millions of people leave their homes armed with a firearm. Some do so lawfully. Some do not. But nearly all of them are carrying concealed. Short of a TSA-style invasion of personal privacy at every access point to campus and at every classroom doorway, exactly *how* are you going to prevent a gun from being carried on campus?

The simple and inarguable truth is that you can't. People are giong to carry guns onto campuses, either legally or illegally. When you make it illegal, you accomplish one of two things: you either 1) disarm a law-abiding person, making him or her more susceptible to being victimized by a criminal; or you 2) criminalize an otherwise law-abiding person who is absolutely no threat to your existence who decides to ignore the law in favor of his/her ability to defend themselves. But neither possibility disarms the person whom you should really want to be disarmed: the criminal.

The Brady Center lumps in all sorts of firearms killings that have absolutely nothing to do with lawful concealed carry into their phony "statistics" which lead to their calling us "concealed carry killers." If they are correct, then I must be defective because I have never killed anybody. If guns kill people, then mine are all defective because not one of them has ever been used to kill anybody.....let alone even scare anyone.

On those campuses around the nation where concealed carry is legal, the streets are strangely not running in blood. The argument against campus carry has its roots in the evil idea that a person does not have a right to self-defense. Any organizations, including the Brady Center or any other anti-2nd Amendment activist groups who advocate against campus carry, are motivated by an evil ideology, and that evil is demonstrated when they lump law abiding citizens who possess carry permits in with murderers by calling us "concealed carry killers." It is *they* who kill by trying to condemn millions of their fellow citizens to the role of passive victims. THAT is evil on its face, and evil at its core.
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Re: Guns on college campuses - CNN blog

#3

Post by RoyGBiv » Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:04 pm

Beauty.! :thumbs2: :iagree:
(as of this moment, TAM's is the only response)
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Re: Guns on college campuses - CNN blog

#4

Post by Heartland Patriot » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:10 pm

One of the anti-self defense, anti-firearms arguments is that having a gun makes you a "target" and that the bad guy will leave you alone if you don't present a "threat" to them. But NOT having a gun didn't deter Seung Hui Cho from shooting all those kids at VA Tech. He shot and killed all those unarmed students anyway. But if even ONE of them had a gun, and just a little training, MAYBE that person could have stopped him sooner...and SOME of the people he killed would be alive today. The antis act like if you can't GUARANTEE that the bad guy(s) will be stopped BEFORE they can hurt anyone, then the whole thing is worthless. Which is about as dumb an argument as can be made...its just that they are REALLY slick about making said dumb argument. Well, that and the factor of the bulk of the mainstream media helping them make it... :banghead:

Thank you TAM for a great response to that CNN article. Hopefully as many folks as read the article also read your response.
“If you don’t read the newspaper, you’re uninformed; if you do read the newspaper, you’re misinformed“.---Mark Twain


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Re: Guns on college campuses - CNN blog

#5

Post by chasfm11 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:38 pm

Heartland Patriot wrote:One of the anti-self defense, anti-firearms arguments is that having a gun makes you a "target" and that the bad guy will leave you alone if you don't present a "threat" to them.
I've heard this argument, too, and it is cut from the same cloth as "go along with the airplane hijackers." We saw how well that worked, didn't we.

The easiest counter-argument to those who think that you make yourself a target with a gun is "concealed is concealed." The transition from concealment to action should be short enough that most BGs will not recognize it. By then, hopefully, it is too late for them to be able to worry about it.
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Re: Guns on college campuses - CNN blog

#6

Post by SRH78 » Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:42 pm

Great reply TAM. :thumbs2:

Imo, it isn't even about whether an armed citizen could have prevented all the other victims from being killed or injured, although, that is certainly a huge plus. It is about an individual citizen's right to defend themselves instead of just being a helpless victim.

As for being left alone if you don't pose a threat, the last time I checked, predators prey on the weak not the strong.

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Re: Guns on college campuses - CNN blog

#7

Post by Oldgringo » Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:17 pm

RoyGBiv wrote:Beauty.! :thumbs2: :iagree:
(as of this moment, TAM's is the only response)
TAM is a hard act to follow.

There is an old sayin' about 'leadin' a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink'. They'll drink when they get thirsty...or need water.


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Re: Guns on college campuses - CNN blog

#8

Post by RPB » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:41 pm

Oldgringo wrote:
RoyGBiv wrote:Beauty.! :thumbs2: :iagree:
(as of this moment, TAM's is the only response)
TAM is a hard act to follow.

There is an old sayin' about 'leadin' a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink'. They'll drink when they get thirsty...or need water.
:
Or ...
You can put salt in their oats (like movie theaters do in popcorn)

TAM, you write well :thumbs2:
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