CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

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Plato
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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#16

Post by Plato » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:50 pm

Thanks for the efforts :hurry:

But I'm still gonna be cranky for the next 2 years :grumble

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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#17

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:44 am

Here is the "final word" (I hope) on the conflict between the mark-up copy of the bill and the bill Comparison Chart, both of which came from the conference committee on HR2730.

1. A final determination of delinquent state taxes and fees will still disqualify someone for a CHL.
2. You still have a duty to display your CHL when asked for ID by a LEO, but the penalty for failing to do so was repealed. (Remember, this doesn't go into effect until Sept. 1, 2009, nor am I suggesting that you ignore this duty.)

I'll try to get the Bill Status Report updated today or tomorrow. Some of my clients are being unreasonable and want me to get back to practicing law. :lol:

Chas.
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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#18

Post by DoubleJ » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:04 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'll try to get the Bill Status Report updated today or tomorrow. Some of my clients are being unreasonable and want me to get back to practicing law. :lol:

Chas.
gotta pay them bills, right? :lol::

as many have said, thanks for all the time you've taken off from work, and you know, your home life, as well.
FWIW, IIRC, AFAIK, FTMP, IANAL. YMMV.

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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#19

Post by nitrogen » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:21 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote: 2. You still have a duty to display your CHL when asked for ID by a LEO, but the penalty for failing to do so was repealed. (Remember, this doesn't go into effect until Sept. 1, 2009, nor am I suggesting that you ignore this duty.)
What does this mean exactly?
does it mean there's no legal penalty (i.e. no longer a misdemeanor) or an administrative one (suspension of CHL)
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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#20

Post by jorge » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:54 am

nitrogen wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote: 2. You still have a duty to display your CHL when asked for ID by a LEO, but the penalty for failing to do so was repealed. (Remember, this doesn't go into effect until Sept. 1, 2009, nor am I suggesting that you ignore this duty.)
What does this mean exactly?
does it mean there's no legal penalty (i.e. no longer a misdemeanor) or an administrative one (suspension of CHL)
You know how DPS is supposed to issue licenses in 60 days? It's kind of like that. :mrgreen:
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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#21

Post by dicion » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:10 am

jorge wrote:
nitrogen wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote: 2. You still have a duty to display your CHL when asked for ID by a LEO, but the penalty for failing to do so was repealed. (Remember, this doesn't go into effect until Sept. 1, 2009, nor am I suggesting that you ignore this duty.)
What does this mean exactly?
does it mean there's no legal penalty (i.e. no longer a misdemeanor) or an administrative one (suspension of CHL)
You know how DPS is supposed to issue licenses in 60 days? It's kind of like that. :mrgreen:
Basically, as I read it. If you forget(intentionally or not) to display it after this takes effect, a few things will probably happen.

1) The Officer may assume you didn't tell him for a reason, or get mad at you for not doing so.
- This alone is probably a good reason to continue displaying it

2) The Officer will probably lecture you about reporting you to DPS to suspend your license
- Since many LEO's have proven themselves to not be very familiar with CHL law, even though it has been in effect for
many years, we can probably assume that VERY few, if any, will be familiar with the new laws right after they go into effect.

3) The officer will send in the notification of non-display to DPS.

4) DPS Will do absolutely nothing about it.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Do I recommend not showing it? No. It will probably cause more problems then anything else.
HOWEVER, if you happen to legitimately accidentally forget it (who hasn't left their wallet at home, at least once?) Then you will not have to worry about it being suspended.

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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#22

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:41 am

nitrogen wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote: 2. You still have a duty to display your CHL when asked for ID by a LEO, but the penalty for failing to do so was repealed. (Remember, this doesn't go into effect until Sept. 1, 2009, nor am I suggesting that you ignore this duty.)
What does this mean exactly?
does it mean there's no legal penalty (i.e. no longer a misdemeanor) or an administrative one (suspension of CHL)
Correct; no suspension, no Class B Misdemeanor.

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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#23

Post by jlangton » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:44 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
nitrogen wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote: 2. You still have a duty to display your CHL when asked for ID by a LEO, but the penalty for failing to do so was repealed. (Remember, this doesn't go into effect until Sept. 1, 2009, nor am I suggesting that you ignore this duty.)
What does this mean exactly?
does it mean there's no legal penalty (i.e. no longer a misdemeanor) or an administrative one (suspension of CHL)
Correct; no suspension, no Class B Misdemeanor.

Chas.
That's one step in the right direction.....
JL
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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#24

Post by dicion » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:28 pm

The Enrolled version of the bill has been posted here:
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup ... ill=HB2730" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The sections dealing with display have been modified as follows:
[RED UNDERLINED TEXT IN BRACKETS] has been 'struck through', and will be REMOVED by this bill (since you cannot strikethrough on these forums.)
BOLD & UNDERLINED text will be ADDED by this bill.

ARTICLE 12A. DISPLAY OF LICENSE TOCARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN
SECTION 12A.01.  Sections 411.187(a) and (c), Government Code, are amended to read as follows:
(a)  A license may be suspended under this section if the license holder:
(1)  is charged with the commission of a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or an offense under Section 42.01, Penal Code, or of a felony under an information or indictment;
(2)  [fails to display a license as required by Section 411.205;]
...

SECTION 12A.02.  Section 411.205, Government Code, is amended to read as follows:
Sec. 411.205.  REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY [DISPLAYING] LICENSE[; PENALTY].
[(a)] If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license. [A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.
[(b)  A person commits an offense if the person fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this subsection is a Class B misdemeanor.]


SECTION 12A.03.  An offense under Section 411.205, Government Code, may not be prosecuted after the effective date of this article. If, on the effective date of this article, a criminal action is pending for an offense under Section 411.205, the action is dismissed on that date. However, a final conviction for an offense under Section 411.205 that exists on the effective date of this article is unaffected by this article.
SECTION 12A.04.  This article takes effect September 1, 2009.


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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#25

Post by dicion » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:47 pm

In addition to the above, An email recieved from from a senator's office in another thread stated the following:
Just want to let you know that I have sent a e-mail to the Department of
Public Safety asking someone to please check the status of your
application and to give me a call. Just to let you know. DPS was
beginning to see a slow-down about a month ago and for some unknown
reason they are once again seeing a large spike in new applications. The
problem is the security clearance. A commissioned officer is the only
one that can run a background check.
I will let you know as soon as I
get a call-back.

Barbara Lewis
Constituent Services Director
Senate District 11
Also in this sunset bill is an apparent solution to the above 'background check delay' problem! :hurry: :hurry: :hurry:
SECTION 11.05. Section 411.176, Government Code, is amended to read as follows:

Sec. 411.176. REVIEW OF APPLICATION MATERIALS. (a) On receipt of [the] application materials by the department at its Austin headquarters, the department shall conduct the appropriate criminal history record check of the applicant through its computerized criminal history system. Not later than the 30th day after the date the department receives the application materials, the department shall forward the materials to the director's designee in the geographical area of the applicant's residence so that the designee may conduct the investigation described by Subsection (b). For purposes of this section, the director's designee may be a noncommissioned employee of the department.

(b) The director's designee as needed shall conduct an additional criminal history record check of the applicant and an investigation of the applicant's local official records to verify the accuracy of the application materials. The director's designee may access any records necessary for purposes of this subsection.
...
Although we did not see all the bills passed that we wanted to this session, The above 2 items, combined with the relaxed application restrictions mentioned by Charles, and the passage of the 51% Signage bill, represents a Very Significant 'win' for us CHL'ers! :hurry: :hurry: :hurry: We're moving in the right direction, just need to keep up the momentum in 2011!

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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#26

Post by boomerang » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:50 pm

Deleted to keep it secret how to legally carry a gun and still protect your right to privacy.
Last edited by boomerang on Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#27

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:21 pm

boomerang wrote:
jlangton wrote:That's one step in the right direction.....
JL
Taking only one step makes it even more attractive to get a Utah or Florida gun license instead of Texas. They won't set off alarms when someone runs your Texas DL. So there's actually an advantage to letting my Texas CHL expire. Above and beyond the time and money saved.

:waiting:
As soon as the wrong people in the Texas Senate or Texas House learn that Texas residents are choosing to get out-of-state licenses in stead of a Texas CHL, then we will do the same thing Colorado did. The law will be changed to require a Texas resident to have a Texas CHL. That would be a real shame for Texans who have to get another state's license because they have past due child support, or a deferred adjudication that disqualifies them in Texas, but not any other state in the U.S.

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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#28

Post by Coogan » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:18 pm

Does the elimination of the TR-100 mean that you no longer need to shoot 50 rounds to qualify for a CHL?

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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#29

Post by Charles L. Cotton » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:34 pm

Coogan wrote:Does the elimination of the TR-100 mean that you no longer need to shoot 50 rounds to qualify for a CHL?
No, the shooting portion of the class remains. The TR-100 is the statutorily required training certificate that has been a pain since day one. The statute requires certificates with unique serial numbers and authorized DPS to charge instructors $5 for each. DPS hates them and so do instructors. DPS has to estimate demand, then order these 4-part NCR forms. They then have to inventory them and log them out by serial number to each instructor that orders them. Then, when a CHL applicant turns in their application packet, DPS has to check the serial number on the TR-100 to make sure it was logged out to that instructor.

If DPS under estimates the demand for TR-100s, then there is a delay getting them to instructors. Often, this forces them to cancel or delay classes until the TR-100s arrive. Since DPS can only charge $5 per TR-100, it doesn't begin to cover the costs DPS incurs buying them, paying for shipping to DPS, logging them into the system, then shipping them to instructors. It's a terrible system that is mandated by the statute; that is mandated until Sept. 1st.

The change also does away with DPS having to send application packets. This too created delays for instructors. All application materials will be available on the Internet for instructors and applicants to download.

These is very significant changes.

Chas.
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Re: CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill

#30

Post by AJSully421 » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:25 am

Question for Chas...

"SECTION 6.06. Section 411.171(4), Government Code, is
amended to read as follows:
(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or,
except as provided in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred
adjudication entered against a person by a court of competent
jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is
subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community
supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or
an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged; [or]
(B) pardoned under the authority of a state or
federal official; or
(C) otherwise vacated, set aside, annulled,
invalidated, voided, or sealed under any state or federal law."


Does this affect those with State Jail Felony Deferred if is was successfully completed / dismissed by the judge?

thanks friend!
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