No drinking while carrying?

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GibMeDat
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No drinking while carrying?

#1

Post by GibMeDat » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:20 am

I have a friend who just took the CHL class. He told me that the instructor told him about some new zero tolerance policy that will go into effect on September 1st that basically prohibits anyone carrying a gun from drinking any alcohol at all. Does anyone else know anything about this? Did some legislation pass that I did not know about?

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Beiruty
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#2

Post by Beiruty » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:23 am

I do not drink. That is my understanding. You carry == 0% alcohol.
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AEA
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#3

Post by AEA » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:32 am

Not true. No such law and practically nothing passed in Legislation this year anyway!

You are allowed some Wine, Beer or whatever in any establishment that is not 51% posted. You remain legal as long as you do not go over the .08 limit which is the same for operating a Motor Vehicle.

All that being said, .....if you are involved in a shooting and have ANY amount of alcohol in your system, you can be assured that the DA will make it quite clear that you were under the influence.

My rule is, one beer or one wine and NO MORE while eating a meal. A good strong coffee at the end of the meal.
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#4

Post by nitrogen » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:55 am

Beiruty wrote:I do not drink. That is my understanding. You carry == 0% alcohol.
The law may be interpreted that way by some but what it actually says is this:
Texas Penal Code
Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER

(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.
in case you're wondering, I believe the definition that matters in this case:
§ 49.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:

(2) "Intoxicated" means:
(A) not having the normal use of mental or physical faculties by reason of the introduction of alcohol, a controlled substance, a drug, a dangerous drug, a combination of two or more of those substances, or any other substance into the body; or
(B) having an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more.
Unless one drink affects you to the degree required in § 49.01 above, you should be able to have a drink.
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#5

Post by flintknapper » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:03 pm

AEA wrote:Not true. No such law and practically nothing passed in Legislation this year anyway!

You are allowed some Wine, Beer or whatever in any establishment that is not 51% posted. You remain legal as long as you do not go over the .08 limit which is the same for operating a Motor Vehicle.All that being said, .....if you are involved in a shooting and have ANY amount of alcohol in your system, you can be assured that the DA will make it quite clear that you were under the influence.

My rule is, one beer or one wine and NO MORE while eating a meal. A good strong coffee at the end of the meal.
No Sir.

Respectfully, this is incorrect.

There is no "legal limit" as concerns concealed carry. The standard of law here... appears to be "intoxication" alone, (no legal limit guidelines).

With this in mind....it remains the discretion of the officer to arrest...and the duty of the LE agency and prosecution to "prove" you were "intoxicated".
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#6

Post by Keith B » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:06 pm

flintknapper wrote:
AEA wrote:Not true. No such law and practically nothing passed in Legislation this year anyway!

You are allowed some Wine, Beer or whatever in any establishment that is not 51% posted. You remain legal as long as you do not go over the .08 limit which is the same for operating a Motor Vehicle.All that being said, .....if you are involved in a shooting and have ANY amount of alcohol in your system, you can be assured that the DA will make it quite clear that you were under the influence.

My rule is, one beer or one wine and NO MORE while eating a meal. A good strong coffee at the end of the meal.
No Sir.

Respectfully, this is incorrect.

There is no "legal limit" as concerns concealed carry. The standard of law here... appears to be "intoxication" alone, (no legal limit guidelines).

With this in mind....it remains the discretion of the officer to arrest...and the duty of the LE agency and prosecution to "prove" you were "intoxicated".
:iagree:
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#7

Post by frazzled » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:07 pm

We and a CHL comrade were told that if pulled over with any alcohol we would be arrested, that the law is vague, but the police aren't.

Even if right I'd rather not spend $$$ on bail, would you? There's right then there's stupid you know what I mean.
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#8

Post by dewayneward » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:23 pm

It is kinda a shame that there has to be a law (kinda like the top rung of a ladder saying not to use it as a step) to tell us not to drink and be armed. I would hope that common sense would tell us that........nevermind :roll:
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#9

Post by C-dub » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:51 pm

I think I've had one beer with my dinner 2 or 3 times in the 6+ years I've had my CHL. Each time it was with at least 12 ounces of ribeye and all the trimmings. For my own peace of mind I just can't bring myself to drink while I'm carrying. Same thing at home. Since I carry even at home, I usually don't drink there either. However, when I do, I usually take it off. The weapon, I mean. That is to say, the dangerous one. The gun.
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#10

Post by 74novaman » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:55 pm

C-dub wrote:I think I've had one beer with my dinner 2 or 3 times in the 6+ years I've had my CHL. Each time it was with at least 12 ounces of ribeye and all the trimmings. For my own peace of mind I just can't bring myself to drink while I'm carrying. Same thing at home. Since I carry even at home, I usually don't drink there either. However, when I do, I usually take it off. The weapon, I mean. That is to say, the dangerous one. The gun.
x2. If I'm drinking at home, the gun goes off the belt and locked up. Doing that whole "drinking" thing less and less often these days.
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#11

Post by hheremtp » Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:32 pm

Guns and alcohol don't mix, not even a little. If you want to drink, don't carry, if you want to carry, don't drink. it is that simple.
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#12

Post by Bart » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:12 pm

GibMeDat wrote:I have a friend who just took the CHL class. He told me that the instructor told him about some new zero tolerance policy that will go into effect on September 1st that basically prohibits anyone carrying a gun from drinking any alcohol at all. Does anyone else know anything about this? Did some legislation pass that I did not know about?
The instructor or your friend is confused. There is no change in the intoxication rule.

The new alcohol rule coming into effect says there is a defense to prosecution if you carry into a 51% bar and they didn't post the required signs.
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#13

Post by srothstein » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:04 am

flintknapper wrote:
AEA wrote:You remain legal as long as you do not go over the .08 limit which is the same for operating a Motor Vehicle.
No Sir.

Respectfully, this is incorrect.

There is no "legal limit" as concerns concealed carry. The standard of law here... appears to be "intoxication" alone, (no legal limit guidelines).
Actually, both statements are somewhat correct and somewhat incorrect. The law does define intoxication and does so clearly. Section 49.01 defines it as the legal limit of .08 or the loss of your normal faculties (the exact definition was posted).

You may be intoxicated at .001 BAC if it is your first drink ever and you have a low tolerance for alcohol. You may be intoxicated at .000 BAC if you have taken some other type of intoxicant. And you are legally intoxicated at .08 BAC no matter how little it affects your normal mental and physical faculties. So, there is a legal limit but it is not the only way to become intoxicated under the law.

To understand why section 49.01 applies to chapter 46, you must understand the Code Construction Act (Chapter 311 of the Government Code). It clearly states that if a word has had a technical meaning attached through any law, this meaning now applies wherever used. If there is no technical meaning, then the generally understood meaning is what is used. So, intoxicated now has a specific technical meaning based on 49.01. In addition, the general public now understands the word intoxicated to mean this legal meaning, as opposed to the word drunk. I think the only time I have ever heard the word intoxicated in a conversation, it was in reference to the law.

Of course, not being a lawyer, I could be wrong. But this is the way I was taught to read the laws and how the officers you come into contact with were probably also taught.
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#14

Post by boomerang » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:40 am

srothstein wrote:Actually, both statements are somewhat correct and somewhat incorrect. The law does define intoxication and does so clearly. Section 49.01 defines it as the legal limit of .08 or the loss of your normal faculties (the exact definition was posted).

You may be intoxicated at .001 BAC if it is your first drink ever and you have a low tolerance for alcohol. You may be intoxicated at .000 BAC if you have taken some other type of intoxicant. And you are legally intoxicated at .08 BAC no matter how little it affects your normal mental and physical faculties. So, there is a legal limit but it is not the only way to become intoxicated under the law.

To understand why section 49.01 applies to chapter 46, you must understand the Code Construction Act (Chapter 311 of the Government Code). It clearly states that if a word has had a technical meaning attached through any law, this meaning now applies wherever used. If there is no technical meaning, then the generally understood meaning is what is used.
When discussing the intoxicated rule in 46.035, one potential ambiguity is the definition of intoxicated in chapter 46 (46.06) that is different than the 49.01 definition. The 46.06 definition specifies a "substantial impairment of mental or physical capacity" and that seems like a higher hurdle. For example, someone could have minor impairment and not have "the normal use of mental or physical faculties" but not meet the hurdle for "substantial impairment" because it's generally understood that minor is less than substantial.

But either way I think if someone is too intoxicated to carry a handgun legally, they're definitely too intoxicated to drive legally.
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Re: No drinking while carrying?

#15

Post by Oldgringo » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:46 am

hheremtp wrote:Guns and alcohol don't mix, not even a little. If you want to drink, don't carry, if you want to carry, don't drink. it is that simple.
:iagree: , this pretty much sums it up. This way, there are no questions to be answered nor any bail and/or legal fees to be paid.

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