Incredible account of Parkland shooting

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Paladin
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#31

Post by Paladin » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:12 pm

David Taylor's actions were especially pathetic. He gets the alert, has eyes on N. Cruz, backs off, runs away and the sound of gunfire and hides in a closet without ever calling a Code Red.

I mean what kind of cowardliness does it take to not even make a radio call???
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#32

Post by Paladin » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:47 pm

In the book Tragedy and Hope, Prof. Quigley wrote about how England became successful on the world stage in part by how it educated its future leadership:
The chief attributes of this aristocratic upper class in England were (1) that it should be trained in an ... masculine, and relatively Spartan educational system centering about the great boys' schools like Eton, Harrow, or Winchester; (2) that it should imbibe from this educational system certain distinctive attitudes of leadership, courage, sportsmanship, team play, self sacrifice, disdain for physical comforts, and devotion to duty; (3) that it should be prepared in later life to devote a great deal of time and energy to unpaid tasks of public significance, as justices of the peace, on county councils, in the county militia, or in other services.
Sad that individuals like the Deputy Scot Peterson, David Taylor, and the school administrators did not have the leadership traits necessary to deal with N. Cruz. They are horrible examples for students to learn from.
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#33

Post by Paladin » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:13 pm

Since Columbine, officers are taught to rush toward gunshots and neutralize the killer. But the first Broward deputies don’t rush in.

Broward Sheriff Scott Israel later reveals that he personally changed department policy to say that deputies “may” instead of “shall” rush in.
Funny, because to the public Scott Israel was saying:
"I gave him a gun. I gave him a badge. I gave him the training. If he didn’t have the heart to go in, that’s not my responsibility."
and scapegoating the NRA

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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#34

Post by Paladin » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:19 pm

As a side note I am appalled that the school would lock the bathrooms. That is barbaric.
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#35

Post by sottish cheese » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:02 pm

troglodyte wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:26 pm
Peterson was worthless.
He went home safe that night. That's the only thing that's important to his kind.


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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#36

Post by philip964 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:13 pm

It seems that when bad things happen it is never because of the failure of one item.

It always seems is that this failed and then that failed and then this other thing failed and before long you have a tragedy.

This event seems to be hundreds of failures.

A law is passed preventing licensed concealed carry in schools.

A crazy kid is not arrested for committing lots of crimes because there is this new government program to not punish kids. He’s not locked up and put in jail, instead he’s given the opportunity to buy a gun.

Rather than taking the gun from the crazy kid, the man letting him live under his roof, allows him to keep it, if it’s locked up.

It just goes on and on.

The school response is pathetic, they can’t even sound an alarm, that alone might have saved 3/4’s the kids. Chance after chance after chance is missed to send out an alarm.

Then there is the armed police response. The one chance left to save the children. Pathetic.

An now it’s the assault weapon that killed the kids.

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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#37

Post by bbhack » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:25 pm

The usual Bloomberg supported suspects are quieter than I would guess they want to be, because they know the cascade of abuse and mental illness and stupidity and failure and cowardice. They're not quiet, though.

Sheriff Smiley 4 Stars is about to be gone. Maybe the BCSO and school district can be cleaned up.
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#38

Post by Ruark » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:03 pm

troglodyte wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:55 pm

Your whole comment generally comes across as defeatist. It is a tough problem that is going to require a multilayered approach. There are so many factors involved that each school, even down to each building, may require a different approach.
I didn't mean to sound defeatist, just to acknowledge the complexity of the problem, when it came down to getting past slogans like "arm the teachers!" and sitting down with the proverbial blank sheet of paper and developing something that is really effective. Your and the other reply are good, and make good points.
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#39

Post by Boxerrider » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:01 pm

Functional security doesn't require great expense. It does require people to pay attention and act responsibly. Broward County Schools failed at that years before this kid started shooting.
Historically, when many shooters of this type were faced with an armed response, they were killed, immediately surrendered or committed suicide. There isn't time for a large tactical team to respond. I'm not suggesting that every teacher must be armed, and haven't heard anybody who has. I am suggesting that every teacher who is willing and able be armed. You don't want somebody coming to help, you want somebody who is already there to help. Also, yes, armed means loaded and on their person. I can comfortably wear a 1911 and two extra mags under the same dress pants and tucked shirt I wore in the classroom for 18 years.
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#40

Post by chasfm11 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:43 am

Boxerrider wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:01 pm
Functional security doesn't require great expense. It does require people to pay attention and act responsibly. Broward County Schools failed at that years before this kid started shooting.
Historically, when many shooters of this type were faced with an armed response, they were killed, immediately surrendered or committed suicide. There isn't time for a large tactical team to respond. I'm not suggesting that every teacher must be armed, and haven't heard anybody who has. I am suggesting that every teacher who is willing and able be armed. You don't want somebody coming to help, you want somebody who is already there to help. Also, yes, armed means loaded and on their person. I can comfortably wear a 1911 and two extra mags under the same dress pants and tucked shirt I wore in the classroom for 18 years.
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:iagree: The first thing is to remove the idea that the person will NOT be confronted in their misdeeds. It is said that putting a sign in front of your house saying that you have an alarm system doesn't work but I've never seen anyone put up a sign saying their house is unprotected.

The real problem with these kinds of events is that the shooters have put a lot of thought into the situation before they act. They have, in my opinion, considered the reality of the situation more than the air-headed serendipity minded people who think that not even entertaining the possibility of a tragedy will make it not happen. A previous post talked about a multi-layered approach. In my conversations about arming teachers in our local district (and getting tremendous push back from teachers, school officials, police chiefs and parents) I've come to believe that a level of planning like that will never occur. The opponents can simply will the bad situation away. I think that is exactly what happened at Parkland. Even while the tragedy was unfolding, they were still trying to will it away, as they had previously done with Cruz.
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#41

Post by Flightmare » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:15 am

I'm curious what some of these "head in the sand" type people at these schools would do if they were told someone was coming to their school to do something horrific.

Would they wait until the bad guy showed up to call the police?
Or would they call the police in advance to have people there and ready?

If the answer is the former, then obviously they are foolish.
If the answer is the latter, then why why not allow teachers who have their LTC and wish to carry to do so? You then have potential reduction in time for an armed response, and therefore potential for a reduction in the loss of life. How is that not a good thing?
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#42

Post by Paladin » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:15 am

philip964 wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:13 pm
It seems that when bad things happen it is never because of the failure of one item.

It always seems is that this failed and then that failed and then this other thing failed and before long you have a tragedy.

This event seems to be hundreds of failures.

...
Strongly agree. In the modern world it is often several things that go wrong to create a tragedy. At Parkland more things went wrong that any of us would have ever believed possible. What I am seeing is a cascade of failures at nearly every level. If you look at the video of the brave police that did respond and entered the building searching for the shooter... even those guys screwed up. They stood in the doorway (aka the fatal funnel) forever instead of using proper technique. Thank God none of them were hurt.
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#43

Post by troglodyte » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:01 pm

Paladin wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:19 pm
As a side note I am appalled that the school would lock the bathrooms. That is barbaric.
The 1st and 3rd floor bathroom were locked due to students vaping in them. The second floor bathrooms were opened and monitored. The occupants only had to walk up or down a flight of stair to use the facilities.
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#44

Post by bbhack » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:04 pm



It's a done deal - Sheriff Smiley is gone. 5 1/2 pages of why.

He claims he wants a trial (in the Senate). That will be fun to watch, although most would prefer to just turn the page and forget this failure.
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Re: Incredible account of Parkland shooting

#45

Post by Paladin » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:38 am

bbhack wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:04 pm


It's a done deal - Sheriff Smiley is gone. 5 1/2 pages of why.
Thank God!
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