ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

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LDB415
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#76

Post by LDB415 »

Read that book when it came out. Excellent book. Pretty good foretelling of the future. The left is doing everything they can to convert it from fiction to non-fic.
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#77

Post by srothstein »

carlson1 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 5:26 pm 1. IF the above video is correct.
2. IF 2nd Amendment is a second for our God given rights
3. IF we really believe the government is coming after our guns.
4. Then the million dollar question - then what do we do?
I think if the government is coming after our guns we should cooperate and give them the guns, well at least the bullets to start with.

I decided a long time ago that this was one line I would not let them cross. I can put up with a lot from the government but coming after my guns would mean they have plans I would not cooperate with. So I will not give up my guns. I have seen that it is too late to save the country, but not yet time to start the shooting. This would make it the time.
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PriestTheRunner
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#78

Post by PriestTheRunner »

Grayling813 wrote: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:10 pm
If anyone hasn't read this book, now would be a good time.
https://billstclair.com/Unintended-Consequences.pdf
Thanks for this, I also converted it to a e-reader format if anybody would like that just PM me.
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#79

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“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against — then you’ll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We’re after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can be neither observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted — and you create a nation of law-breakers — and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.” [from Atlas Shrugged]
But what do we mean by the American Revolution? Do we mean the American war? The Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations. -John Adams

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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#80

Post by K.Mooneyham »

Grayling813 wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:13 am
“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against — then you’ll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We’re after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can be neither observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted — and you create a nation of law-breakers — and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.” [from Atlas Shrugged]

I wouldn't say I'm an Ayn Rand "fan", but I do believe she was an astute observer of politics, and that's one of my favorite quotes because I believe it to have much merit.

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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#81

Post by Rex B »

For anyone who has not read "Atlas shrugged", do yourself a favor and read it now.
Also highly recommend her other masterwork "The Fountainhead"

Both are very timely even today
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#82

Post by Paladin »

Grayling813 wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 11:13 am
“Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?” said Dr. Ferris. “We want them broken. You’d better get it straight that it’s not a bunch of boy scouts you’re up against — then you’ll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We’re after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you’d better get wise to it. There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What’s there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can be neither observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted — and you create a nation of law-breakers — and then you cash in on guilt. Now that’s the system, Mr. Rearden, that’s the game, and once you understand it, you’ll be much easier to deal with.” [from Atlas Shrugged]
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#83

Post by Paladin »

Apparently, in relation to the Pistol Brace Rule somebody gave one of these to the ATF at SHOT show: Save a Pup Patch :smilelol5:
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#84

Post by troglodyte »

If you are considering registering your pistol with a brace as an SBR under the 120 day tax exempt period you may want to make sure your ducks are in a row.

I was notified by my gun trust attorney (Jim Willi) to make sure to have notarized proof that you owned the pistol with the brace prior to the ruling being entered into the Federal Registry. Mine were already on my Exhibit A, with my other firearms, and a part of my trust for a couple of years. Mr. Willi suggested sending in an individual, notarized, Exhibit A for each pistol you might register as an SBR. I am assuming this is to keep all the other firearms in the trust out of ATF's sight.

He also stated the manufacturer's marking would suffice and you would not have to get it engraved with the trust's name, etc.

As of this weekend, the ruling has not entered the Federal Registry. It very well could be tomorrow, there's no way to know until it shows up on the Federal Registry site. I'm getting the individual Exhibit As notarized tomorrow. If it's too late then I still have the one from a couple of years ago. I may have to ask Mr. Willi if a redacted Exhibit A would be accepted.

Time is of the essence it seems.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Just passing on information that might be useful. Consult your legal advisor.
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#85

Post by carlson1 »

troglodyte wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 8:08 pm If you are considering registering your pistol with a brace as an SBR under the 120 day tax exempt period you may want to make sure your ducks are in a row.

I was notified by my gun trust attorney (Jim Willi) to make sure to have notarized proof that you owned the pistol with the brace prior to the ruling being entered into the Federal Registry. Mine were already on my Exhibit A, with my other firearms, and a part of my trust for a couple of years. Mr. Willi suggested sending in an individual, notarized, Exhibit A for each pistol you might register as an SBR. I am assuming this is to keep all the other firearms in the trust out of ATF's sight.

He also stated the manufacturer's marking would suffice and you would not have to get it engraved with the trust's name, etc.

As of this weekend, the ruling has not entered the Federal Registry. It very well could be tomorrow, there's no way to know until it shows up on the Federal Registry site. I'm getting the individual Exhibit As notarized tomorrow. If it's too late then I still have the one from a couple of years ago. I may have to ask Mr. Willi if a redacted Exhibit A would be accepted.

Time is of the essence it seems.

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. Just passing on information that might be useful. Consult your legal advisor.
Sounds good except with this attorney if I had a pistol and if I was going to register it I would be a criminal in just a few days if I had an AR Pistol.

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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#86

Post by Rafe »

Still not in the federal register as of 16:20 Eastern as far as I can find. I was pretty sure today would be the day. Using this search:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documen ... ing+braces
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#87

Post by Bolton Strid »

Will miss the entertaining hysterics here as well as other places across the internet after this dumpster fire of a so-called regulation gets slapped down. Reads like it was written by a freshman college intern. The bottom line is there is NO WAY to comply with it. There is no path to compliance - it runs afoul of other laws (ie tax code) and is tangled up in conflicts and operational cross-purposes. Most horrible junk I've read in a while. Talking to anyone at the ATF is pointless - talk to 10 different people, get 10 different answers, which are actually non-answers since they simply try to refer you to a boss up the chain of command, who never calls back. They're not being dodgy or belligerent, they just don't know anything.

An aspect I haven't seen mentioned anywhere are the LEOs who have bought 10 inch barreled ARs with a brace setup. They're lighter, handier to manipulate inside a vehicle and have sufficient firepower for the distances they're likely to engage at. The reduced velocity and range of those actually aids in public safety surrounding a conflict scene. Those folk are gonna find themselves in the same sort of pickle as the public. Hope they're being sufficiently vocal about it themselves.
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#88

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After the loss in the bump stock case, there are millions of dollars to be paid in damages.
The new ruler stipulate the destruction of properties in 100s of millions of dollars. If they lose thi rule in court, it is catastrophic and political suicide.
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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

#89

Post by extremist »

New more reasoned voice responding to the FUDD and the Brace Rules. Wish he was in Texas to engage his services.

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Re: ATF Released New Proposed Pistol Brace Rules

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Post by The Annoyed Man »

Bolton Strid wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:30 am Will miss the entertaining hysterics here as well as other places across the internet after this dumpster fire of a so-called regulation gets slapped down. Reads like it was written by a freshman college intern. The bottom line is there is NO WAY to comply with it. There is no path to compliance - it runs afoul of other laws (ie tax code) and is tangled up in conflicts and operational cross-purposes. Most horrible junk I've read in a while. Talking to anyone at the ATF is pointless - talk to 10 different people, get 10 different answers, which are actually non-answers since they simply try to refer you to a boss up the chain of command, who never calls back. They're not being dodgy or belligerent, they just don't know anything.

An aspect I haven't seen mentioned anywhere are the LEOs who have bought 10 inch barreled ARs with a brace setup. They're lighter, handier to manipulate inside a vehicle and have sufficient firepower for the distances they're likely to engage at. The reduced velocity and range of those actually aids in public safety surrounding a conflict scene. Those folk are gonna find themselves in the same sort of pickle as the public. Hope they're being sufficiently vocal about it themselves.
The Democrat Gun-Grabber Goons (AKA “the ATF”) are only individually aware of those pistol brace purchases that were made as part of a firearms sale with attached brace, involving an FFL and a 4473. I have a family member who is an LEO who made one such braced pistol purchase several years ago, for exactly the same reason you’ve mentioned above. I’m quite certain he has no intention to comply. Literally MILLIONS of braces were purchased individually as accessories, many paid for with cash since there was no requirement in the law to do otherwise. How the heck does ATF propose to follow up on those? I mean, even if they can track shipments of accessory braces from the manufacturer to wholesalers, and from wholesalers to retailers, how can they have even partial information on individual buyers who had the foresight to pay with cash?

Answer: they cannot. To that, I say "Vive la resistance!" May she prosper.
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