Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

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Gunner4640
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Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#1

Post by Gunner4640 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:39 am

I was at a Gander mt in Houston. I was walking to my car and I noticed a man walking towards the rear of my car about 20 yards away following every step as I took one
he ended up behind my car when I turned in front of the car going towards the door he started walking towards me. I raised my shirt and placed my hand on my gun and told him not to come near me, he froze in his tracks and stood there giving my dirty looks. I watched him as I opened the door he never moved. Once in the car my wife who had her gun in hand said he was approaching people in the parking lot for about 20 minutes she said most people went the other way when he did, in my opinion by his actions he was stalking me because he ended up behind my car the exact moment I got to the front. I posted a shortened version of this story on another site and was told I was lucky he did not file charges on me for brandishing my gun, I did not draw it only had my hand on it and told him not to come near me. What my question is could he have filed on me for brandishing my gun? even though I did not draw it from it's holster? I just issued him a warning to stay away. The people on the other site say I was lucky and had no right to do that? My thought are that 1. he was stalking me (he followed my every step) 2. he was behind my car 3. I was in an open parking lot. 4. I did not know this person. 5. he was bigger than me. 6. my wife was in the car but close to what was going on. 6. he was walking around in the parking lot.Was I wrong by putting my hand on my gun and telling him to stay away from me ? I do not take into account what others say about the laws no knowing if they are chl holders or not. seeking opinions about this situation I was in. Also called Gander mgr told him about the guy. Gander at 1960/290 :txflag:
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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#2

Post by fishman » Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:53 am

He was probably trying to sell you something, or maybe asking for donations. He might have been a bum. I don't have a problem with what you did , if you felt threatened, but I would have just turned around and said, no thanks I'm not interested.
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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#3

Post by Robert*PPS » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:07 pm

People can file on you for just about anything, really. There was a topic on this forum a while back discussing a book written by a person who was falsely accused of pulling a weapon on his neighbor. Him and his neighbor's family were good friends, but he accidentally offended them at a dinner party. They knew he had guns and basically called in a complaint that he had pulled a gun on them. They eventually beat the rap, but at a high financial and emotional cost.

Now, I'm not saying you should or should not have done what you did. Only you can make that decision in the moment. Just be aware that a MWAG call is always a risk.

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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#4

Post by The Annoyed Man » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:13 pm

Just a reminder. . . .there is no law specifically against "brandishing" in Texas. There is a law against failure to conceal by a CHL unless in response to a threat of use of force/deadly force, or the actual use of force/deadly force. As fishman said, you felt threatened.

You did not draw your gun. You put your hand on it. I'm inclined to say that whether or not you "failed to conceal" is partially dependent on whether or not you were carrying IWB or OWB, and whether or not you exposed part of the gun in the process. If I rest my hand on my gun, but outside my shirt, did I "fail to conceal?" I don't think so. But it won't matter to the other guy because he's getting the same message. The fact that he did not back away but stood his ground and gave you the stink-eye even after you put your hand on the gun indicates at best a very disrespectful person, and at worst, someone with hostile intent. Personally, if I had to go as far as putting my hand on my gun, I'd have told him stop following me, stop crowding me, and to back away from my car. . . . .NOW!

In the future, if you have any doubts about it, be the FIRST one to call 911, and tell them exactly what happened, including your part, and that this guy is continuing to pester people in the parking lot. They'll send a cop over there to roust him.
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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#5

Post by SewTexas » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:24 pm

I would suggest (for the future) the best way to do this type of move, and what I've done, is to not "show" the gun, but to let the stalker "know" that you have it.

Basically, when I was in the same situation you were, (it was dark-ish and in a WM parking lot, so it was reasonably well lit) I was able to shift my bags to the same hand as my purse and put my hand under the hem of my shirt, he saw what I did, I did it very deliberately and with my eyes on him. There was no mistaking what I had my hand on, but I had not displayed anything, so no one not involved could possibly be nervous.



meanwhile remember, the law was changed about failing to conceal, you're ok. and we don't have a brandishing law. I think you're ok.
~Tracy
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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#6

Post by Gunner4640 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:32 pm

I guess I failed to say I don't think he saw the gun because the shirt I had on was long and baggy type. I think he just saw the bottom of my owb black leather holster but he knew I was armed. if that makes a difference?
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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#7

Post by SewTexas » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:14 pm

sorry sounds to me like the 'other forum' is full of a bunch of ninnies....you didn't "brandish" anything if no one saw anything. You could have had your hand on your phone with attitude for all he knew :cool:
~Tracy
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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#8

Post by MotherBear » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:20 pm

SewTexas wrote:You could have had your hand on your phone with attitude for all he knew :cool:
My thoughts exactly. Or, I have a black leather camera case I sometimes wear on my belt. Maybe you were going to take a picture of him and report him to the police. The first few times I wore the camera case after I got my CHL, my husband pulled me aside and told me I was really printing. :lol:


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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#9

Post by stevem » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:31 pm

A good exercise for you to do now would be to stand in front of a mirror and explain to that reasonable person in the mirror why you felt threatened in specific terms. This will help you out a lot if you are ever faced with a similar situation.


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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#10

Post by cb1000rider » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:36 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:Just a reminder. . . .there is no law specifically against "brandishing" in Texas. There is a law against failure to conceal by a CHL unless in response to a threat of use of force/deadly force, or the actual use of force/deadly force. As fishman said, you felt threatened.
To be the devils advocate, here are some things that might land you in trouble:
1) If you felt threatened enough to expose the fact that you had a weapon, you felt that you were justified in using force. Why didn't you call the PD? Generally, any action that is bad enough to warrant that type of response should be followed up... By the way, it might keep you out of trouble. IMHO Pacing you isn't enough to justify force. Neither is attempting to contact you. Neither is making you nervous. After you've warned him, then perhaps things start to change.

2) If he knew you had a weapon, it can result in a MWG call. That's bad for you. At that point, the LEOs are going to believe the caller, as you do have a firearm. I've decided that if I'm ever facing a MWG call where someone didn't see my firearm, make sure the LEOs have the caller describe your firearm. Silver automatic is probably enough to get the job done 50% of the time, but the other 50% it's going to be crystal clear that no one saw your firearm in plain view... Hard to charge you with anything in that case.

I understand that someone approaching you in a parking lot doesn't make you feel comfortable, but people in urban areas do it all the time - looking for money, trying to sell speakers out of a van, whatever... I have yet to run into hostile intent. It's tough having to figure out intent on their way over and putting a car between you and them until you can get it sorted out is probably a good idea.

I don't think you did anything wrong - Just trying to help keep us all out of trouble.

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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#11

Post by RoyGBiv » Wed Dec 11, 2013 1:49 pm

Sec. 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.
Now read 9.31 HERE
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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#12

Post by Abraham » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:07 pm

Gunner4640,

My opinion: I would've done what you did.

I wouldn't worry about some questionable person calling the law on me. The type of character that approached you isn't likely to want the law scrutinizing his behavior in a parking lot. This sort of worry can lead to inaction that could be deadly - for you.

You have a CHL and carry to defend yourself if need be.

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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#13

Post by SewTexas » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:11 pm

cb1000rider wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:Just a reminder. . . .there is no law specifically against "brandishing" in Texas. There is a law against failure to conceal by a CHL unless in response to a threat of use of force/deadly force, or the actual use of force/deadly force. As fishman said, you felt threatened.
To be the devils advocate, here are some things that might land you in trouble:
1) If you felt threatened enough to expose the fact that you had a weapon, you felt that you were justified in using force. Why didn't you call the PD? Generally, any action that is bad enough to warrant that type of response should be followed up... By the way, it might keep you out of trouble. IMHO Pacing you isn't enough to justify force. Neither is attempting to contact you. Neither is making you nervous. After you've warned him, then perhaps things start to change.

2) If he knew you had a weapon, it can result in a MWG call. That's bad for you. At that point, the LEOs are going to believe the caller, as you do have a firearm. I've decided that if I'm ever facing a MWG call where someone didn't see my firearm, make sure the LEOs have the caller describe your firearm. Silver automatic is probably enough to get the job done 50% of the time, but the other 50% it's going to be crystal clear that no one saw your firearm in plain view... Hard to charge you with anything in that case.

I understand that someone approaching you in a parking lot doesn't make you feel comfortable, but people in urban areas do it all the time - looking for money, trying to sell speakers out of a van, whatever... I have yet to run into hostile intent. It's tough having to figure out intent on their way over and putting a car between you and them until you can get it sorted out is probably a good idea.

I don't think you did anything wrong - Just trying to help keep us all out of trouble.

I'm sorry, but an unknown man approaching me, a not quite 50 year old woman, in a WM parking lot in the dark, when I have a load of groceries...is not coming up to ask me how the weather is. :roll: during the day, eh, I might possibly, wait a beat, depends on the feeling I get, but not at night, nope.
~Tracy
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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#14

Post by MechAg94 » Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:35 pm

I don't have any issue with what you did. I think you did right. However, If you felt so threatened that you almost drew your gun, I would suggest you might want to call the cops anyway to report the man especially if you say he was doing that to a lot of people.

As a worst case, he may have been looking for that one person who didn't see him that he take at the car door. He was a bit nuts at the least IMO. If he was a sales guy or begging, he could have called out from a couple car lengths away. No need to approach close. I wouldn't like that situation at all either.

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Re: Opinions/comments on parking lot guy approching me?

#15

Post by suthdj » Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:08 pm

Today I had to go to the VA Hosp in Dallas. After I left there I needed gas. I figured the area was a bad area(They always seem to be around Govt buildings) Anyway I pulled in the gas station which had a few shady folks 2 at the bus stop an 1 standing around in front, after I started to pump gas the guy in front yells if I got some change I said sure an gave him a couple bucks, he never got on the same side of the pump as me and would have to squeeze between the pump a garbage can and then go over the hose to get to me so I was not really worried. Bad thing was I was not carrying in a holster due to being at VA I had my firearm(G30) in my chest pocket inside my coat which was open however could have snagged if I had to draw. Long story short he was happy with 2 bucks it ain't going to break me, so I figure it all worked out.

To the OP I see nothing wrong about how you handled it. I think if he had good intensions he would have spoke before approaching you.
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